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	<title>Comments on: Links ~ 19 July 2008</title>
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	<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1233</link>
	<description>This is Zimbabwe is Sokwanele&#039;s pro-democracy activist blog. It provides grassroots news and views from Zimbabwe.</description>
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		<title>By: Ozzie</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1233/comment-page-1#comment-269529</link>
		<dc:creator>Ozzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1233#comment-269529</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Mike, about a list, though I&#039;d hope it wouldn&#039;t have to come to that: people&#039;s confidence in Morgan would surely be shaken if his precondition regarding the cessation of violence were waived.

The Role of Honour for this period in 2008 is sadly way too long already. In the years ahead, these brave innocent people must continue to be remembered in Zimbabwe; they are the real Heroes and Martyrs in the history of the country.

My deep fear is summed up in a question, would anyone have got anywhere negotiating with Hitler or Saddam?

Politically, Raila Obinga (Kenya) has spoken out so well, showing that he sees the problems clearly - as does for example Moletsi Mbeki (in SA) - so there are those in the region with much wisdom to offer Zim, if only the way can be cleared for them to do so.

We must keep praying for truth and justice to prevail.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;269529&#039;,&#039;Ozzie&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;269529&#039;,&#039;Ozzie&#039;,&#039;I agree with you, Mike, about a list, though I\&#039;d hope it wouldn\&#039;t have to come to that: people\&#039;s confidence in Morgan would surely be shaken if his precondition regarding the cessation of violence were waived.\r\n\r\nThe Role of Honour for this period in 2008 is sadly way too long already. In the years ahead, these brave innocent people must continue to be remembered in Zimbabwe; they are the real Heroes and Martyrs in the history of the country.\r\n\r\nMy deep fear is summed up in a question, would anyone have got anywhere negotiating with Hitler or Saddam?\r\n\r\nPolitically, Raila Obinga (Kenya) has spoken out so well, showing that he sees the problems clearly - as does for example Moletsi Mbeki (in SA) - so there are those in the region with much wisdom to offer Zim, if only the way can be cleared for them to do so.\r\n\r\nWe must keep praying for truth and justice to prevail.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Mike, about a list, though I&#8217;d hope it wouldn&#8217;t have to come to that: people&#8217;s confidence in Morgan would surely be shaken if his precondition regarding the cessation of violence were waived.</p>
<p>The Role of Honour for this period in 2008 is sadly way too long already. In the years ahead, these brave innocent people must continue to be remembered in Zimbabwe; they are the real Heroes and Martyrs in the history of the country.</p>
<p>My deep fear is summed up in a question, would anyone have got anywhere negotiating with Hitler or Saddam?</p>
<p>Politically, Raila Obinga (Kenya) has spoken out so well, showing that he sees the problems clearly &#8211; as does for example Moletsi Mbeki (in SA) &#8211; so there are those in the region with much wisdom to offer Zim, if only the way can be cleared for them to do so.</p>
<p>We must keep praying for truth and justice to prevail.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('269529','Ozzie'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('269529','Ozzie','I agree with you, Mike, about a list, though I\'d hope it wouldn\'t have to come to that: people\'s confidence in Morgan would surely be shaken if his precondition regarding the cessation of violence were waived.\r\n\r\nThe Role of Honour for this period in 2008 is sadly way too long already. In the years ahead, these brave innocent people must continue to be remembered in Zimbabwe; they are the real Heroes and Martyrs in the history of the country.\r\n\r\nMy deep fear is summed up in a question, would anyone have got anywhere negotiating with Hitler or Saddam?\r\n\r\nPolitically, Raila Obinga (Kenya) has spoken out so well, showing that he sees the problems clearly - as does for example Moletsi Mbeki (in SA) - so there are those in the region with much wisdom to offer Zim, if only the way can be cleared for them to do so.\r\n\r\nWe must keep praying for truth and justice to prevail.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: S Davies</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1233/comment-page-1#comment-269511</link>
		<dc:creator>S Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1233#comment-269511</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also worried about this though not wanting to be negative, especially since I don&#039;t live in Zimbabwe. 

But perhaps this is why civil society has been saying they want more of a voice? Here we have a typical politicians&#039; compromise. Mbeki has come up with an option that satisfied MDC without himself losing face. Great. Good for him. 

But the requirement of an end (or at least a start to an end) of the violence, and - most important of all - allowing the humanitarian agencies back in to save thousands of lives that are now gravely at risk - what about those? 

I&#039;m just praying that the MDC has not lost touch with the most basic needs of the most vulnerable Zimbabweans...alternatively, if it has, that the voice of civil society will from now on become more and more insistent.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;269511&#039;,&#039;S Davies&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;269511&#039;,&#039;S Davies&#039;,&#039;I\&#039;m also worried about this though not wanting to be negative, especially since I don\&#039;t live in Zimbabwe. \r\n\r\nBut perhaps this is why civil society has been saying they want more of a voice? Here we have a typical politicians\&#039; compromise. Mbeki has come up with an option that satisfied MDC without himself losing face. Great. Good for him. \r\n\r\nBut the requirement of an end (or at least a start to an end) of the violence, and - most important of all - allowing the humanitarian agencies back in to save thousands of lives that are now gravely at risk - what about those? \r\n\r\nI\&#039;m just praying that the MDC has not lost touch with the most basic needs of the most vulnerable Zimbabweans...alternatively, if it has, that the voice of civil society will from now on become more and more insistent.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also worried about this though not wanting to be negative, especially since I don&#8217;t live in Zimbabwe. </p>
<p>But perhaps this is why civil society has been saying they want more of a voice? Here we have a typical politicians&#8217; compromise. Mbeki has come up with an option that satisfied MDC without himself losing face. Great. Good for him. </p>
<p>But the requirement of an end (or at least a start to an end) of the violence, and &#8211; most important of all &#8211; allowing the humanitarian agencies back in to save thousands of lives that are now gravely at risk &#8211; what about those? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just praying that the MDC has not lost touch with the most basic needs of the most vulnerable Zimbabweans&#8230;alternatively, if it has, that the voice of civil society will from now on become more and more insistent.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('269511','S Davies'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('269511','S Davies','I\'m also worried about this though not wanting to be negative, especially since I don\'t live in Zimbabwe. \r\n\r\nBut perhaps this is why civil society has been saying they want more of a voice? Here we have a typical politicians\' compromise. Mbeki has come up with an option that satisfied MDC without himself losing face. Great. Good for him. \r\n\r\nBut the requirement of an end (or at least a start to an end) of the violence, and - most important of all - allowing the humanitarian agencies back in to save thousands of lives that are now gravely at risk - what about those? \r\n\r\nI\'m just praying that the MDC has not lost touch with the most basic needs of the most vulnerable Zimbabweans...alternatively, if it has, that the voice of civil society will from now on become more and more insistent.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1233/comment-page-1#comment-269319</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1233#comment-269319</guid>
		<description>Nice to see that the maWarVets still regard reality as an enemy of the State. 

I hope that the MDC, while holding out for these additional mediators, has not lost sight of the more fundamental precondition to any talks, which is a cessation of violence. If the &quot;talks about talks&quot; do not have this precondition, then every day of talks should begin with the MDC listing every act of violence since the negotiators previously met, as well as any newly-discovered bodies from previous violence. If Zanu-PF had any violence to report against its members I&#039;m sure they could use the opportunity to do that as well - or remain silent if there has been none. 

Then people would know exactly what they were negotiating about.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;269319&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;269319&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;,&#039;Nice to see that the maWarVets still regard reality as an enemy of the State. \r\n\r\nI hope that the MDC, while holding out for these additional mediators, has not lost sight of the more fundamental precondition to any talks, which is a cessation of violence. If the \&quot;talks about talks\&quot; do not have this precondition, then every day of talks should begin with the MDC listing every act of violence since the negotiators previously met, as well as any newly-discovered bodies from previous violence. If Zanu-PF had any violence to report against its members I\&#039;m sure they could use the opportunity to do that as well - or remain silent if there has been none. \r\n\r\nThen people would know exactly what they were negotiating about.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see that the maWarVets still regard reality as an enemy of the State. </p>
<p>I hope that the MDC, while holding out for these additional mediators, has not lost sight of the more fundamental precondition to any talks, which is a cessation of violence. If the &#8220;talks about talks&#8221; do not have this precondition, then every day of talks should begin with the MDC listing every act of violence since the negotiators previously met, as well as any newly-discovered bodies from previous violence. If Zanu-PF had any violence to report against its members I&#8217;m sure they could use the opportunity to do that as well &#8211; or remain silent if there has been none. </p>
<p>Then people would know exactly what they were negotiating about.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('269319','Mike'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('269319','Mike','Nice to see that the maWarVets still regard reality as an enemy of the State. \r\n\r\nI hope that the MDC, while holding out for these additional mediators, has not lost sight of the more fundamental precondition to any talks, which is a cessation of violence. If the \&quot;talks about talks\&quot; do not have this precondition, then every day of talks should begin with the MDC listing every act of violence since the negotiators previously met, as well as any newly-discovered bodies from previous violence. If Zanu-PF had any violence to report against its members I\'m sure they could use the opportunity to do that as well - or remain silent if there has been none. \r\n\r\nThen people would know exactly what they were negotiating about.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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