<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Links ~ 19 &#8211; 20 August 2008</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633</link>
	<description>This is Zimbabwe is Sokwanele&#039;s pro-democracy activist blog. It provides grassroots news and views from Zimbabwe.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:20:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271802</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271802</guid>
		<description>I see the Batswana have roundly denied the Herald&#039;s story. No surprise there. 

@ True Grit: I think you are trying to give Police states a bad name :-) . Whatever motivates undemocratic military or police led regimes, they usually try to keep order rather than destroy it. What we have here is a Criminal State, why make it sound like something more legal than it really is?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271802&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271802&#039;,&#039;Mike&#039;,&#039;I see the Batswana have roundly denied the Herald\&#039;s story. No surprise there. \r\n\r\n@ True Grit: I think you are trying to give Police states a bad name :-) . Whatever motivates undemocratic military or police led regimes, they usually try to keep order rather than destroy it. What we have here is a Criminal State, why make it sound like something more legal than it really is?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the Batswana have roundly denied the Herald&#8217;s story. No surprise there. </p>
<p>@ True Grit: I think you are trying to give Police states a bad name <img src='http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  . Whatever motivates undemocratic military or police led regimes, they usually try to keep order rather than destroy it. What we have here is a Criminal State, why make it sound like something more legal than it really is?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271802','Mike'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271802','Mike','I see the Batswana have roundly denied the Herald\'s story. No surprise there. \r\n\r\n@ True Grit: I think you are trying to give Police states a bad name :-) . Whatever motivates undemocratic military or police led regimes, they usually try to keep order rather than destroy it. What we have here is a Criminal State, why make it sound like something more legal than it really is?'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ants</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271801</link>
		<dc:creator>Ants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271801</guid>
		<description>A colleague of mine observed that as far as he was aware there have almost been NO African leaders who have ever stepped down down out of power by choice.  So I Googled it, and really, apart from the most obvious and famous and loved Statesman Africa has ever known - Nelson Mandela, it looks like only two others.  At least that I can find.

The rest have, without exception, choosen to die in office, die by the sword, or other interesting, but damaging exits of this nature.

So - does anyone seriously believe that this primitive, immature behaviour so manifest in African &quot;leadership&quot; (loosely used) is likely to simply evaporate conveniently just when we need Mugabe to disappear?

Naive in the extreme, I say - Bob will have to be removed against his will, or die, naturally or some other how.

This is NOT advocating voilence - it is simply a statement of a fact that is irrefutable.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271801&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271801&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;,&#039;A colleague of mine observed that as far as he was aware there have almost been NO African leaders who have ever stepped down down out of power by choice.  So I Googled it, and really, apart from the most obvious and famous and loved Statesman Africa has ever known - Nelson Mandela, it looks like only two others.  At least that I can find.\r\n\r\nThe rest have, without exception, choosen to die in office, die by the sword, or other interesting, but damaging exits of this nature.\r\n\r\nSo - does anyone seriously believe that this primitive, immature behaviour so manifest in African \&quot;leadership\&quot; (loosely used) is likely to simply evaporate conveniently just when we need Mugabe to disappear?\r\n\r\nNaive in the extreme, I say - Bob will have to be removed against his will, or die, naturally or some other how.\r\n\r\nThis is NOT advocating voilence - it is simply a statement of a fact that is irrefutable.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A colleague of mine observed that as far as he was aware there have almost been NO African leaders who have ever stepped down down out of power by choice.  So I Googled it, and really, apart from the most obvious and famous and loved Statesman Africa has ever known &#8211; Nelson Mandela, it looks like only two others.  At least that I can find.</p>
<p>The rest have, without exception, choosen to die in office, die by the sword, or other interesting, but damaging exits of this nature.</p>
<p>So &#8211; does anyone seriously believe that this primitive, immature behaviour so manifest in African &#8220;leadership&#8221; (loosely used) is likely to simply evaporate conveniently just when we need Mugabe to disappear?</p>
<p>Naive in the extreme, I say &#8211; Bob will have to be removed against his will, or die, naturally or some other how.</p>
<p>This is NOT advocating voilence &#8211; it is simply a statement of a fact that is irrefutable.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271801','Ants'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271801','Ants','A colleague of mine observed that as far as he was aware there have almost been NO African leaders who have ever stepped down down out of power by choice.  So I Googled it, and really, apart from the most obvious and famous and loved Statesman Africa has ever known - Nelson Mandela, it looks like only two others.  At least that I can find.\r\n\r\nThe rest have, without exception, choosen to die in office, die by the sword, or other interesting, but damaging exits of this nature.\r\n\r\nSo - does anyone seriously believe that this primitive, immature behaviour so manifest in African \&quot;leadership\&quot; (loosely used) is likely to simply evaporate conveniently just when we need Mugabe to disappear?\r\n\r\nNaive in the extreme, I say - Bob will have to be removed against his will, or die, naturally or some other how.\r\n\r\nThis is NOT advocating voilence - it is simply a statement of a fact that is irrefutable.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: True Grit</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271798</link>
		<dc:creator>True Grit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271798</guid>
		<description>Re: Mugabe now has support, claims Harare...

What a ridiculous story! There is no need for Mr Tsvangirai to lie or mislead anyone about the political situation in Zimbabwe. The evidence is there for the whole world to see:
ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.

Killing and maiming the political opposition and its supporters; stealing farms under the pretext of land reforms; bulldozing and burning peoples homes; controlling the legal system to Zanu-PF&#039;s advantage; rewarding cronies and henchmen with wealth stolen from the nation; abusing women; arming militia and allowing them to rampage above the law; banning a free press and intimidating independent journalists; allowing the economy to go into free fall; barring aid organizations from distributing food and medicines to the population; allowing people to go hungry and even starve if it does not suit the regime to give them food. All this adds up to only one analysis of the political situation: ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271798&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271798&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;,&#039;Re: Mugabe now has support, claims Harare...\r\n\r\nWhat a ridiculous story! There is no need for Mr Tsvangirai to lie or mislead anyone about the political situation in Zimbabwe. The evidence is there for the whole world to see:\r\nZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.\r\n\r\nKilling and maiming the political opposition and its supporters; stealing farms under the pretext of land reforms; bulldozing and burning peoples homes; controlling the legal system to Zanu-PF\&#039;s advantage; rewarding cronies and henchmen with wealth stolen from the nation; abusing women; arming militia and allowing them to rampage above the law; banning a free press and intimidating independent journalists; allowing the economy to go into free fall; barring aid organizations from distributing food and medicines to the population; allowing people to go hungry and even starve if it does not suit the regime to give them food. All this adds up to only one analysis of the political situation: ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Mugabe now has support, claims Harare&#8230;</p>
<p>What a ridiculous story! There is no need for Mr Tsvangirai to lie or mislead anyone about the political situation in Zimbabwe. The evidence is there for the whole world to see:<br />
ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.</p>
<p>Killing and maiming the political opposition and its supporters; stealing farms under the pretext of land reforms; bulldozing and burning peoples homes; controlling the legal system to Zanu-PF&#8217;s advantage; rewarding cronies and henchmen with wealth stolen from the nation; abusing women; arming militia and allowing them to rampage above the law; banning a free press and intimidating independent journalists; allowing the economy to go into free fall; barring aid organizations from distributing food and medicines to the population; allowing people to go hungry and even starve if it does not suit the regime to give them food. All this adds up to only one analysis of the political situation: ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271798','True Grit'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271798','True Grit','Re: Mugabe now has support, claims Harare...\r\n\r\nWhat a ridiculous story! There is no need for Mr Tsvangirai to lie or mislead anyone about the political situation in Zimbabwe. The evidence is there for the whole world to see:\r\nZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.\r\n\r\nKilling and maiming the political opposition and its supporters; stealing farms under the pretext of land reforms; bulldozing and burning peoples homes; controlling the legal system to Zanu-PF\'s advantage; rewarding cronies and henchmen with wealth stolen from the nation; abusing women; arming militia and allowing them to rampage above the law; banning a free press and intimidating independent journalists; allowing the economy to go into free fall; barring aid organizations from distributing food and medicines to the population; allowing people to go hungry and even starve if it does not suit the regime to give them food. All this adds up to only one analysis of the political situation: ZIMBABWE IS A POLICE STATE.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LuanshyaBlue</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271795</link>
		<dc:creator>LuanshyaBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271795</guid>
		<description>Mugabe and the JOC have NO intention of giving up power and allowing themselves to face prosecution. The elections and the present talks are the usual delaying tactics.
In my humble opinion, it is time for Mbeki to admit that he has NO influence upon events, withdraw from further contact with Mugabe and let Mugabe and the JOC openly flout international opinion by claiming a mandate to govern.
This would allow Ian Khama ( it seems there is nobody else) to pursue African support for his policy of absolute repudiation of Mugabe. Perhaps the spineless other African leaders might be encouraged to follow his lead in memory of Levy Mwanawasa, who would have been arm in arm with Ian Khama had he not been so tragically struck down.
I know that allowing Mugabe to userp power again will cause more bloodshed in Zimbabwe, but it might shorten the agony by many months, and perhaps years, if the matter is allowed to come to a head.
I can think of nothing worse than the MDC sharing power with a Mugabe who remains in control of Zimbabwe&#039;s secret services, police and army. Please remember Joshua Nkomo.
Why, why, why is Mbeki allowing this to continue?
Good luck, Zimbabwe, you need it.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271795&#039;,&#039;LuanshyaBlue&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271795&#039;,&#039;LuanshyaBlue&#039;,&#039;Mugabe and the JOC have NO intention of giving up power and allowing themselves to face prosecution. The elections and the present talks are the usual delaying tactics.\r\nIn my humble opinion, it is time for Mbeki to admit that he has NO influence upon events, withdraw from further contact with Mugabe and let Mugabe and the JOC openly flout international opinion by claiming a mandate to govern.\r\nThis would allow Ian Khama ( it seems there is nobody else) to pursue African support for his policy of absolute repudiation of Mugabe. Perhaps the spineless other African leaders might be encouraged to follow his lead in memory of Levy Mwanawasa, who would have been arm in arm with Ian Khama had he not been so tragically struck down.\r\nI know that allowing Mugabe to userp power again will cause more bloodshed in Zimbabwe, but it might shorten the agony by many months, and perhaps years, if the matter is allowed to come to a head.\r\nI can think of nothing worse than the MDC sharing power with a Mugabe who remains in control of Zimbabwe\&#039;s secret services, police and army. Please remember Joshua Nkomo.\r\nWhy, why, why is Mbeki allowing this to continue?\r\nGood luck, Zimbabwe, you need it.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mugabe and the JOC have NO intention of giving up power and allowing themselves to face prosecution. The elections and the present talks are the usual delaying tactics.<br />
In my humble opinion, it is time for Mbeki to admit that he has NO influence upon events, withdraw from further contact with Mugabe and let Mugabe and the JOC openly flout international opinion by claiming a mandate to govern.<br />
This would allow Ian Khama ( it seems there is nobody else) to pursue African support for his policy of absolute repudiation of Mugabe. Perhaps the spineless other African leaders might be encouraged to follow his lead in memory of Levy Mwanawasa, who would have been arm in arm with Ian Khama had he not been so tragically struck down.<br />
I know that allowing Mugabe to userp power again will cause more bloodshed in Zimbabwe, but it might shorten the agony by many months, and perhaps years, if the matter is allowed to come to a head.<br />
I can think of nothing worse than the MDC sharing power with a Mugabe who remains in control of Zimbabwe&#8217;s secret services, police and army. Please remember Joshua Nkomo.<br />
Why, why, why is Mbeki allowing this to continue?<br />
Good luck, Zimbabwe, you need it.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271795','LuanshyaBlue'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271795','LuanshyaBlue','Mugabe and the JOC have NO intention of giving up power and allowing themselves to face prosecution. The elections and the present talks are the usual delaying tactics.\r\nIn my humble opinion, it is time for Mbeki to admit that he has NO influence upon events, withdraw from further contact with Mugabe and let Mugabe and the JOC openly flout international opinion by claiming a mandate to govern.\r\nThis would allow Ian Khama ( it seems there is nobody else) to pursue African support for his policy of absolute repudiation of Mugabe. Perhaps the spineless other African leaders might be encouraged to follow his lead in memory of Levy Mwanawasa, who would have been arm in arm with Ian Khama had he not been so tragically struck down.\r\nI know that allowing Mugabe to userp power again will cause more bloodshed in Zimbabwe, but it might shorten the agony by many months, and perhaps years, if the matter is allowed to come to a head.\r\nI can think of nothing worse than the MDC sharing power with a Mugabe who remains in control of Zimbabwe\'s secret services, police and army. Please remember Joshua Nkomo.\r\nWhy, why, why is Mbeki allowing this to continue?\r\nGood luck, Zimbabwe, you need it.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Cox</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271794</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271794</guid>
		<description>I think the JOC are aiming at a version of the regime in Burma. China may well support this, if it gives them a good supply of Platinum.

Both these parties would consider the people of Zimbabwe to be at best an inconvenience.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271794&#039;,&#039;Don Cox&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271794&#039;,&#039;Don Cox&#039;,&#039;I think the JOC are aiming at a version of the regime in Burma. China may well support this, if it gives them a good supply of Platinum.\r\n\r\nBoth these parties would consider the people of Zimbabwe to be at best an inconvenience.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the JOC are aiming at a version of the regime in Burma. China may well support this, if it gives them a good supply of Platinum.</p>
<p>Both these parties would consider the people of Zimbabwe to be at best an inconvenience.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271794','Don Cox'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271794','Don Cox','I think the JOC are aiming at a version of the regime in Burma. China may well support this, if it gives them a good supply of Platinum.\r\n\r\nBoth these parties would consider the people of Zimbabwe to be at best an inconvenience.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: True Grit</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1633/comment-page-1#comment-271792</link>
		<dc:creator>True Grit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1633#comment-271792</guid>
		<description>Re: Zanu prepares fresh crackdown as talks face collapse -

If Mugabe goes down that road he will be openly proving that he has no intention of ever being committed to democracy. He may not care whether the world will treat him as nothing more than a tin-pot dictator, because he may believe that he can rely entirely on the Chinese government to bail him out of the country&#039;s misery while he and the JOC continue to intimidate their political foes.

It is therefore up to strong diplomatic forces in the world to convince, even to plead, with the Chinese authorities that they must not help Mugabe. How this can be done, given their own human rights record, I do not know. But there are some liberal elements in the Chinese administration, and it may be a feather in their cap if they can be seen to show progress 
and help create a fairer world.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271792&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271792&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;,&#039;Re: Zanu prepares fresh crackdown as talks face collapse -\r\n\r\nIf Mugabe goes down that road he will be openly proving that he has no intention of ever being committed to democracy. He may not care whether the world will treat him as nothing more than a tin-pot dictator, because he may believe that he can rely entirely on the Chinese government to bail him out of the country\&#039;s misery while he and the JOC continue to intimidate their political foes.\r\n\r\nIt is therefore up to strong diplomatic forces in the world to convince, even to plead, with the Chinese authorities that they must not help Mugabe. How this can be done, given their own human rights record, I do not know. But there are some liberal elements in the Chinese administration, and it may be a feather in their cap if they can be seen to show progress \r\nand help create a fairer world.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Zanu prepares fresh crackdown as talks face collapse -</p>
<p>If Mugabe goes down that road he will be openly proving that he has no intention of ever being committed to democracy. He may not care whether the world will treat him as nothing more than a tin-pot dictator, because he may believe that he can rely entirely on the Chinese government to bail him out of the country&#8217;s misery while he and the JOC continue to intimidate their political foes.</p>
<p>It is therefore up to strong diplomatic forces in the world to convince, even to plead, with the Chinese authorities that they must not help Mugabe. How this can be done, given their own human rights record, I do not know. But there are some liberal elements in the Chinese administration, and it may be a feather in their cap if they can be seen to show progress<br />
and help create a fairer world.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271792','True Grit'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271792','True Grit','Re: Zanu prepares fresh crackdown as talks face collapse -\r\n\r\nIf Mugabe goes down that road he will be openly proving that he has no intention of ever being committed to democracy. He may not care whether the world will treat him as nothing more than a tin-pot dictator, because he may believe that he can rely entirely on the Chinese government to bail him out of the country\'s misery while he and the JOC continue to intimidate their political foes.\r\n\r\nIt is therefore up to strong diplomatic forces in the world to convince, even to plead, with the Chinese authorities that they must not help Mugabe. How this can be done, given their own human rights record, I do not know. But there are some liberal elements in the Chinese administration, and it may be a feather in their cap if they can be seen to show progress \r\nand help create a fairer world.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

