Comments on: A perspective on the talks and the election of the Speaker – by Senator David Coltart http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828 This is Zimbabwe is Sokwanele's pro-democracy activist blog. It provides grassroots news and views from Zimbabwe. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:43:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Beth http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271899 Beth Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:26:22 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271899 I feel David Coltart's piece is jus a perspective justifying his party's lack of judgement in all of this. I have never understood how anything else could be more important than removing Mugabe from power...what was a bigger evil Mugabe or Tsvangirai? I listened to two of Mutambara's interviews and lost all faith in MDC-AM's claim to be working on the basis of principles. Say what you like but it is so obvious for all and sundry what an optunist Mutambara is and how his late entry into the mix has worked against any claim to a moral high ground the likes of Coltart and Ncube had.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271899','Beth'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> --- <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271899','Beth','I feel David Coltart\'s piece is jus a perspective justifying his party\'s lack of judgement in all of this. I have never understood how anything else could be more important than removing Mugabe from power...what was a bigger evil Mugabe or Tsvangirai? I listened to two of Mutambara\'s interviews and lost all faith in MDC-AM\'s claim to be working on the basis of principles. Say what you like but it is so obvious for all and sundry what an optunist Mutambara is and how his late entry into the mix has worked against any claim to a moral high ground the likes of Coltart and Ncube had.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div> I feel David Coltart’s piece is jus a perspective justifying his party’s lack of judgement in all of this. I have never understood how anything else could be more important than removing Mugabe from power…what was a bigger evil Mugabe or Tsvangirai? I listened to two of Mutambara’s interviews and lost all faith in MDC-AM’s claim to be working on the basis of principles. Say what you like but it is so obvious for all and sundry what an optunist Mutambara is and how his late entry into the mix has worked against any claim to a moral high ground the likes of Coltart and Ncube had.
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]]> By: David Wheeler http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271893 David Wheeler Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:37:04 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271893 A water-lily of truth in a cesspool of murk, rumour and lies!
Thank you David.

I particularly liked your last paragraphs on the effectiveness of a thoughtful, prophetic minority.

“The majority never has right on its side. That is one of the social lies that any free-thinking man is bound to rebel against. Tell me, who makes up the majority in any country – is it the wise men or the fools? I think we have to agree that the fools make up a terrible, overwhelming majority the world over.” Henrik Ibsen.

The ACDP (African Christain Democratic Party) in South Africa fulfil exactly the minority, prophetic role David mentions. They are parliament’s conscience. No-one listens to them, but everyone hears them!

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]]> By: tc http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271892 tc Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:28:43 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271892 Makoni should also be involved in the talks then. What happened to him?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271892','tc'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> --- <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271892','tc','Makoni should also be involved in the talks then. What happened to him?'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div> Makoni should also be involved in the talks then. What happened to him?
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]]> By: Jim http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271891 Jim Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:30:39 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271891 Wow, it may take some time to digest all this, but there are serious questions to be raised in all this…

1. concerning the MDC MT’s decision to reject the MDC AM’s proposal of supporting MT for presidency (in May 07 and again in Jan 08). It seems as though this was based, according to DC, “on spurious grounds related to the Parliamentary election”, which can only mean some MT candidates were unhappy to give up there seats for some AM candidates (probably, Nyathi, Sibanda, and Ncube??). Do we even know what the agreement was? But why didn’t the MDC AM just support no none at all, rather than foolishly backing Makoni?

2. there are huge questions to be raised about the election of the speaker and of course reference to ’strong-arm’ tactics of forcing MT MPs to vote for the ‘correct’ speaker. It seems it wasn’t a secret ballot. This is very worrying. There are also questions to be raised on the AM side about Mutambara’s heros day rant, plus why, it seems, all of AM MPs voted for the MT speaker candidate.Senator DC fails to explain this properly.

I am still confused over the current negotiations. I can see why MT holds back and I can see why the AM side are willing to work with what they’ve got for the ’sake of the country’. I do not know which is right, but thank DC for explaining some of the ins/outs of where we are and how we got here…which is …er..nowhere really….

Senator DC also asks “Is truth important?”. I say YES, but the knowledge of it is even more important – so I ask for more, in fact – we are the people – we demand it! We have been left in the dark too long.

So while we finally get some insight into all this, there are so many questions still to be answered from both sides. But my gut reaction is – can we not just focus on getting rid of Mugabe…but I can see what has happened to the MDC, and it is very sad indeed.

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]]> By: Diaspora UK http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271890 Diaspora UK Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:29:47 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271890 I don't know why they all agreed to that MOU clause preventing them telling the people what is happening. Democracy my fat foot. If they spoke out and responded properly and kept us informed then so much of the rubbish would be stopped and it would make it hard for troublemakers in The Herald etc to get away with mischief. I agree with you @spellbound that "People are good judges and they judge by deeds" but a person cannot make a judgement if the politicians don't speak to us. I can't trust my suspicions and doubts, I need to judge people by what they say and not by what others or the media tell me they say and do. If Zim had a proper democracy we'd probably get the other side of the story in response - you would here in the UK. (I must say that I disagree with you that this does not make good political reading. Are you kidding?! I think its a goldmine of political reading.)<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271890','Diaspora UK'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> --- <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271890','Diaspora UK','I don\'t know why they all agreed to that MOU clause preventing them telling the people what is happening. Democracy my fat foot. If they spoke out and responded properly and kept us informed then so much of the rubbish would be stopped and it would make it hard for troublemakers in The Herald etc to get away with mischief. I agree with you @spellbound that \"People are good judges and they judge by deeds\" but a person cannot make a judgement if the politicians don\'t speak to us. I can\'t trust my suspicions and doubts, I need to judge people by what they say and not by what others or the media tell me they say and do. If Zim had a proper democracy we\'d probably get the other side of the story in response - you would here in the UK. (I must say that I disagree with you that this does not make good political reading. Are you kidding?! I think its a goldmine of political reading.)'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div> I don’t know why they all agreed to that MOU clause preventing them telling the people what is happening. Democracy my fat foot. If they spoke out and responded properly and kept us informed then so much of the rubbish would be stopped and it would make it hard for troublemakers in The Herald etc to get away with mischief. I agree with you @spellbound that “People are good judges and they judge by deeds” but a person cannot make a judgement if the politicians don’t speak to us. I can’t trust my suspicions and doubts, I need to judge people by what they say and not by what others or the media tell me they say and do. If Zim had a proper democracy we’d probably get the other side of the story in response – you would here in the UK. (I must say that I disagree with you that this does not make good political reading. Are you kidding?! I think its a goldmine of political reading.)
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]]> By: SPELLBOUND http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271889 SPELLBOUND Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:08:20 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271889 I have always doubted academics as politicians. I prefer them to comment and advise because they are pathetic in forefront politics and they don't move with the masses. There is evidence of this in Zimbabwe and elsewhere. Good politicians, loyal to their electorate are not dictatorial, they listen to people and take advice and they dont know it all. Arthur Mutambara, Welshman Ncube, Jonathan Moyo, Robert Mugabe, I paint all with the same brush, they have been a massive disappointment with their degrees and should leave politics to politicians. Legal justifications are not going to exonerate them and as you know the language in your article is for the same peole not the public that you are claiming to be explaining to. It does not make good political reading but good academic reading.Wake up Zimbabweans, we have a beautiful country to save, lets work a way forward and stop all this bickering, it will not take us anywhere. People are good judges and they judge by deeds and not acts of a legal system that ceased functioning a decade ago.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271889','SPELLBOUND'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> --- <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271889','SPELLBOUND','I have always doubted academics as politicians. I prefer them to comment and advise because they are pathetic in forefront politics and they don\'t move with the masses. There is evidence of this in Zimbabwe and elsewhere. Good politicians, loyal to their electorate are not dictatorial, they listen to people and take advice and they dont know it all. Arthur Mutambara, Welshman Ncube, Jonathan Moyo, Robert Mugabe, I paint all with the same brush, they have been a massive disappointment with their degrees and should leave politics to politicians. Legal justifications are not going to exonerate them and as you know the language in your article is for the same peole not the public that you are claiming to be explaining to. It does not make good political reading but good academic reading.Wake up Zimbabweans, we have a beautiful country to save, lets work a way forward and stop all this bickering, it will not take us anywhere. People are good judges and they judge by deeds and not acts of a legal system that ceased functioning a decade ago.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div> I have always doubted academics as politicians. I prefer them to comment and advise because they are pathetic in forefront politics and they don’t move with the masses. There is evidence of this in Zimbabwe and elsewhere. Good politicians, loyal to their electorate are not dictatorial, they listen to people and take advice and they dont know it all. Arthur Mutambara, Welshman Ncube, Jonathan Moyo, Robert Mugabe, I paint all with the same brush, they have been a massive disappointment with their degrees and should leave politics to politicians. Legal justifications are not going to exonerate them and as you know the language in your article is for the same peole not the public that you are claiming to be explaining to. It does not make good political reading but good academic reading.Wake up Zimbabweans, we have a beautiful country to save, lets work a way forward and stop all this bickering, it will not take us anywhere. People are good judges and they judge by deeds and not acts of a legal system that ceased functioning a decade ago.
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]]> By: Sokwanele http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1828/comment-page-1#comment-271888 Sokwanele Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:41:15 +0000 http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1828#comment-271888 I noticed that comments were closed on Senator Coltart's website so I have re-published the entire piece in full here so people who want to comment can do so with the full context alongside.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271888','Sokwanele'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> --- <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271888','Sokwanele','I noticed that comments were closed on Senator Coltart\'s website so I have re-published the entire piece in full here so people who want to comment can do so with the full context alongside.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div> I noticed that comments were closed on Senator Coltart’s website so I have re-published the entire piece in full here so people who want to comment can do so with the full context alongside.
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