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	<title>Comments on: Coltart outlines the &#8220;bare bones of the deal&#8221;</title>
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	<description>This is Zimbabwe is Sokwanele's pro-democracy activist blog. It provides grassroots news and views from Zimbabwe.</description>
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		<title>By: Ants</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271952</link>
		<dc:creator>Ants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Concerned,

Believe me - I hope I am wrong and you are right.  Fervently!

But nothing in the history of the entire continent of Africa supports that optimism.

Tragic.

And @True Grit - abundant resources do not make for &#039;civilisation&#039;.  Pioneering and entrepreneurship do.  Countries are only as civilised as their social system.  Neighbours, schools, hospitals, clubs.  To have those things everybody who left must return, because largely those that left did so to seek those things.

That&#039;s a tall order!

But, correct, with faith and God&#039;s hand, who knows?  I would joyously be wrong, if you get my drift!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271952&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271952&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;,&#039;@Concerned,\r\n\r\nBelieve me - I hope I am wrong and you are right.  Fervently!\r\n\r\nBut nothing in the history of the entire continent of Africa supports that optimism.\r\n\r\nTragic.\r\n\r\nAnd @True Grit - abundant resources do not make for \&#039;civilisation\&#039;.  Pioneering and entrepreneurship do.  Countries are only as civilised as their social system.  Neighbours, schools, hospitals, clubs.  To have those things everybody who left must return, because largely those that left did so to seek those things.\r\n\r\nThat\&#039;s a tall order!\r\n\r\nBut, correct, with faith and God\&#039;s hand, who knows?  I would joyously be wrong, if you get my drift!&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Concerned,</p>
<p>Believe me &#8211; I hope I am wrong and you are right.  Fervently!</p>
<p>But nothing in the history of the entire continent of Africa supports that optimism.</p>
<p>Tragic.</p>
<p>And @True Grit &#8211; abundant resources do not make for &#8216;civilisation&#8217;.  Pioneering and entrepreneurship do.  Countries are only as civilised as their social system.  Neighbours, schools, hospitals, clubs.  To have those things everybody who left must return, because largely those that left did so to seek those things.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a tall order!</p>
<p>But, correct, with faith and God&#8217;s hand, who knows?  I would joyously be wrong, if you get my drift!
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271952','Ants'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271952','Ants','@Concerned,\r\n\r\nBelieve me - I hope I am wrong and you are right.  Fervently!\r\n\r\nBut nothing in the history of the entire continent of Africa supports that optimism.\r\n\r\nTragic.\r\n\r\nAnd @True Grit - abundant resources do not make for \'civilisation\'.  Pioneering and entrepreneurship do.  Countries are only as civilised as their social system.  Neighbours, schools, hospitals, clubs.  To have those things everybody who left must return, because largely those that left did so to seek those things.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a tall order!\r\n\r\nBut, correct, with faith and God\'s hand, who knows?  I would joyously be wrong, if you get my drift!'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Concerned</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271941</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271941</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with you Ant. Zimbabwe is different, and with the help of Almighty God, Zimbabwe can show the rest of Africa a different way. The opposition already have by choosing peace, patience, mercy and forgiveness instead of violence, hatred, revenge. Zimbabwe may never be what it was, it may never be like the West, but the Western ideal is far from perfect, and Zimbabwe has the opportunity to find a unique solution that can lead the way for the rest of Africa.
Let us not lose faith, much ground has been gained by courageous and selfless heroes, but we must not stop praying now. Christians, we must not stop praying, we need to press in now more than ever. The closer one gets to the goal, the harder the fight becomes. Do not let down your guard, many battles lie ahead, but if we persevere the victory will be ours!&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271941&#039;,&#039;Concerned&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271941&#039;,&#039;Concerned&#039;,&#039;I don\&#039;t agree with you Ant. Zimbabwe is different, and with the help of Almighty God, Zimbabwe can show the rest of Africa a different way. The opposition already have by choosing peace, patience, mercy and forgiveness instead of violence, hatred, revenge. Zimbabwe may never be what it was, it may never be like the West, but the Western ideal is far from perfect, and Zimbabwe has the opportunity to find a unique solution that can lead the way for the rest of Africa.\r\nLet us not lose faith, much ground has been gained by courageous and selfless heroes, but we must not stop praying now. Christians, we must not stop praying, we need to press in now more than ever. The closer one gets to the goal, the harder the fight becomes. Do not let down your guard, many battles lie ahead, but if we persevere the victory will be ours!&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with you Ant. Zimbabwe is different, and with the help of Almighty God, Zimbabwe can show the rest of Africa a different way. The opposition already have by choosing peace, patience, mercy and forgiveness instead of violence, hatred, revenge. Zimbabwe may never be what it was, it may never be like the West, but the Western ideal is far from perfect, and Zimbabwe has the opportunity to find a unique solution that can lead the way for the rest of Africa.<br />
Let us not lose faith, much ground has been gained by courageous and selfless heroes, but we must not stop praying now. Christians, we must not stop praying, we need to press in now more than ever. The closer one gets to the goal, the harder the fight becomes. Do not let down your guard, many battles lie ahead, but if we persevere the victory will be ours!
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271941','Concerned'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271941','Concerned','I don\'t agree with you Ant. Zimbabwe is different, and with the help of Almighty God, Zimbabwe can show the rest of Africa a different way. The opposition already have by choosing peace, patience, mercy and forgiveness instead of violence, hatred, revenge. Zimbabwe may never be what it was, it may never be like the West, but the Western ideal is far from perfect, and Zimbabwe has the opportunity to find a unique solution that can lead the way for the rest of Africa.\r\nLet us not lose faith, much ground has been gained by courageous and selfless heroes, but we must not stop praying now. Christians, we must not stop praying, we need to press in now more than ever. The closer one gets to the goal, the harder the fight becomes. Do not let down your guard, many battles lie ahead, but if we persevere the victory will be ours!'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: True Grit</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271940</link>
		<dc:creator>True Grit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ants, you make a good point, and you undoubtedly know Africa better than I do. However, you may be overlooking the assets which Zimbabwe enjoys. There are vast tracts of fertile land, which when put in the hands of good governorship could once again produce the famed &#039;breadbasket&#039; that both Africa and the world increasingly needs. Furthermore, there are the mineral deposits which, when mined without interference by corruption, are unequalled in richness. I say to you, the entrepreneural spirit of man is abundant enough to make Zimbabe a rich nation in time. If the political will is there the economics will follow - in time.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271940&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271940&#039;,&#039;True Grit&#039;,&#039;Ants, you make a good point, and you undoubtedly know Africa better than I do. However, you may be overlooking the assets which Zimbabwe enjoys. There are vast tracts of fertile land, which when put in the hands of good governorship could once again produce the famed \&#039;breadbasket\&#039; that both Africa and the world increasingly needs. Furthermore, there are the mineral deposits which, when mined without interference by corruption, are unequalled in richness. I say to you, the entrepreneural spirit of man is abundant enough to make Zimbabe a rich nation in time. If the political will is there the economics will follow - in time.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ants, you make a good point, and you undoubtedly know Africa better than I do. However, you may be overlooking the assets which Zimbabwe enjoys. There are vast tracts of fertile land, which when put in the hands of good governorship could once again produce the famed &#8216;breadbasket&#8217; that both Africa and the world increasingly needs. Furthermore, there are the mineral deposits which, when mined without interference by corruption, are unequalled in richness. I say to you, the entrepreneural spirit of man is abundant enough to make Zimbabe a rich nation in time. If the political will is there the economics will follow &#8211; in time.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271940','True Grit'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271940','True Grit','Ants, you make a good point, and you undoubtedly know Africa better than I do. However, you may be overlooking the assets which Zimbabwe enjoys. There are vast tracts of fertile land, which when put in the hands of good governorship could once again produce the famed \'breadbasket\' that both Africa and the world increasingly needs. Furthermore, there are the mineral deposits which, when mined without interference by corruption, are unequalled in richness. I say to you, the entrepreneural spirit of man is abundant enough to make Zimbabe a rich nation in time. If the political will is there the economics will follow - in time.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Ants</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271937</link>
		<dc:creator>Ants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Graham - ditto.

And it is more complex even than that.  For example many farms were built over one or more lifetimes, only to have been razed to the ground in the past 8 yrs or so.  Most, if not all, infrasturcture gone.  Simply gone.

To rebuild a country some fundamentals must exist:-

1. Good governance
2. Rule of law
3. Property rights
4. Financial restitution, to pay for rebuilding of trashed infrastructure.
5. Belief in the future.

Read those carefully, and honestly tell me how many you really believe can be upheld in Africa?  The days of &#039;pioneering&#039; are over, therefore point (5.) is critically important.

MT is a good man, and he is clearly couragious.  He believes in his country, and he has surrounded himself with skilled and good people, by-&amp;-large.  Looks grand on paper.  I, myself, would follow him into battle.

But Africa does not really respond to that sort of leadership - not in the big picture.  There will come a time where the &#039;have-nots&#039; simply take from the &#039;haves&#039; AGAIN - not unique in isolation, but the tendancy to popularist governance will bow to such pressure, and end up supporting, blatantly or surrepticiously this behaviour - AGAIN.

The pattern of Zim&#039;s land grab &amp; SA&#039;s inability to deal with crime, and so on ad-infinitum.  Neither scenarios are accidental.

I hate to spread gloom amoung those who have hope, and are in fact still managing in Zim., and yes there will of course be those who &#039;prove&#039; me wrong, and I congratulate them.

But never will Zim return to &#039;civilisation&#039;, with decent affordable schooling, working medical facilities, a thriving agricultural sector, and so on. Never. It&#039;ll simply remain another poor country with a few successful mercenary business people.

That ain&#039;t attractive to people who have started again elsewhere.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271937&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271937&#039;,&#039;Ants&#039;,&#039;Graham - ditto.\r\n\r\nAnd it is more complex even than that.  For example many farms were built over one or more lifetimes, only to have been razed to the ground in the past 8 yrs or so.  Most, if not all, infrasturcture gone.  Simply gone.\r\n\r\nTo rebuild a country some fundamentals must exist:-\r\n\r\n1. Good governance\r\n2. Rule of law\r\n3. Property rights\r\n4. Financial restitution, to pay for rebuilding of trashed infrastructure.\r\n5. Belief in the future.\r\n\r\nRead those carefully, and honestly tell me how many you really believe can be upheld in Africa?  The days of \&#039;pioneering\&#039; are over, therefore point (5.) is critically important.\r\n\r\nMT is a good man, and he is clearly couragious.  He believes in his country, and he has surrounded himself with skilled and good people, by-&amp;-large.  Looks grand on paper.  I, myself, would follow him into battle.\r\n\r\nBut Africa does not really respond to that sort of leadership - not in the big picture.  There will come a time where the \&#039;have-nots\&#039; simply take from the \&#039;haves\&#039; AGAIN - not unique in isolation, but the tendancy to popularist governance will bow to such pressure, and end up supporting, blatantly or surrepticiously this behaviour - AGAIN.\r\n\r\nThe pattern of Zim\&#039;s land grab &amp; SA\&#039;s inability to deal with crime, and so on ad-infinitum.  Neither scenarios are accidental.\r\n\r\nI hate to spread gloom amoung those who have hope, and are in fact still managing in Zim., and yes there will of course be those who \&#039;prove\&#039; me wrong, and I congratulate them.\r\n\r\nBut never will Zim return to \&#039;civilisation\&#039;, with decent affordable schooling, working medical facilities, a thriving agricultural sector, and so on. Never. It\&#039;ll simply remain another poor country with a few successful mercenary business people.\r\n\r\nThat ain\&#039;t attractive to people who have started again elsewhere.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham &#8211; ditto.</p>
<p>And it is more complex even than that.  For example many farms were built over one or more lifetimes, only to have been razed to the ground in the past 8 yrs or so.  Most, if not all, infrasturcture gone.  Simply gone.</p>
<p>To rebuild a country some fundamentals must exist:-</p>
<p>1. Good governance<br />
2. Rule of law<br />
3. Property rights<br />
4. Financial restitution, to pay for rebuilding of trashed infrastructure.<br />
5. Belief in the future.</p>
<p>Read those carefully, and honestly tell me how many you really believe can be upheld in Africa?  The days of &#8216;pioneering&#8217; are over, therefore point (5.) is critically important.</p>
<p>MT is a good man, and he is clearly couragious.  He believes in his country, and he has surrounded himself with skilled and good people, by-&amp;-large.  Looks grand on paper.  I, myself, would follow him into battle.</p>
<p>But Africa does not really respond to that sort of leadership &#8211; not in the big picture.  There will come a time where the &#8216;have-nots&#8217; simply take from the &#8216;haves&#8217; AGAIN &#8211; not unique in isolation, but the tendancy to popularist governance will bow to such pressure, and end up supporting, blatantly or surrepticiously this behaviour &#8211; AGAIN.</p>
<p>The pattern of Zim&#8217;s land grab &amp; SA&#8217;s inability to deal with crime, and so on ad-infinitum.  Neither scenarios are accidental.</p>
<p>I hate to spread gloom amoung those who have hope, and are in fact still managing in Zim., and yes there will of course be those who &#8216;prove&#8217; me wrong, and I congratulate them.</p>
<p>But never will Zim return to &#8216;civilisation&#8217;, with decent affordable schooling, working medical facilities, a thriving agricultural sector, and so on. Never. It&#8217;ll simply remain another poor country with a few successful mercenary business people.</p>
<p>That ain&#8217;t attractive to people who have started again elsewhere.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271937','Ants'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271937','Ants','Graham - ditto.\r\n\r\nAnd it is more complex even than that.  For example many farms were built over one or more lifetimes, only to have been razed to the ground in the past 8 yrs or so.  Most, if not all, infrasturcture gone.  Simply gone.\r\n\r\nTo rebuild a country some fundamentals must exist:-\r\n\r\n1. Good governance\r\n2. Rule of law\r\n3. Property rights\r\n4. Financial restitution, to pay for rebuilding of trashed infrastructure.\r\n5. Belief in the future.\r\n\r\nRead those carefully, and honestly tell me how many you really believe can be upheld in Africa?  The days of \'pioneering\' are over, therefore point (5.) is critically important.\r\n\r\nMT is a good man, and he is clearly couragious.  He believes in his country, and he has surrounded himself with skilled and good people, by-&amp;amp;-large.  Looks grand on paper.  I, myself, would follow him into battle.\r\n\r\nBut Africa does not really respond to that sort of leadership - not in the big picture.  There will come a time where the \'have-nots\' simply take from the \'haves\' AGAIN - not unique in isolation, but the tendancy to popularist governance will bow to such pressure, and end up supporting, blatantly or surrepticiously this behaviour - AGAIN.\r\n\r\nThe pattern of Zim\'s land grab &amp;amp; SA\'s inability to deal with crime, and so on ad-infinitum.  Neither scenarios are accidental.\r\n\r\nI hate to spread gloom amoung those who have hope, and are in fact still managing in Zim., and yes there will of course be those who \'prove\' me wrong, and I congratulate them.\r\n\r\nBut never will Zim return to \'civilisation\', with decent affordable schooling, working medical facilities, a thriving agricultural sector, and so on. Never. It\'ll simply remain another poor country with a few successful mercenary business people.\r\n\r\nThat ain\'t attractive to people who have started again elsewhere.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271933</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271933</guid>
		<description>I am in contact with over 5000 Zimbabweans who fled into exile after 1997. The list reads like a who&#039;s who of the professional and entrepreneurial classes - doctors, dentists, bankers, managers, engineers, mechanics, farmers, financiers, clerics, sportsmen, nurses, technicians, geologists, miners, teachers, businessmenn, MBA graduates, professors, chemists, accountants, speech therapists, radiologists, stockbrokers, town planners, university lecturers.......

Aren&#039;t these the exact skills that Zimbabwe needs to rebuild quickly?  

But Mugabe hates us and labelled us &quot;the real enemy&quot;.  He said his party &quot;must continue to strike fear in [our] hearts&quot; and he sent his militia to drive us out of the country. 

Oh, yes, by the way, we are all white Zimbabweans.

Until we hear Mugabe and ZANU-PF apologise for their racism and hate towards us, or until they are completely out of power and a non-racist regime is installed, I doubt whether many of us will be coming back soon. We don&#039;t trust that crocodile and his cronies.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271933&#039;,&#039;Graham&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271933&#039;,&#039;Graham&#039;,&#039;I am in contact with over 5000 Zimbabweans who fled into exile after 1997. The list reads like a who\&#039;s who of the professional and entrepreneurial classes - doctors, dentists, bankers, managers, engineers, mechanics, farmers, financiers, clerics, sportsmen, nurses, technicians, geologists, miners, teachers, businessmenn, MBA graduates, professors, chemists, accountants, speech therapists, radiologists, stockbrokers, town planners, university lecturers.......\r\n\r\nAren\&#039;t these the exact skills that Zimbabwe needs to rebuild quickly?  \r\n\r\nBut Mugabe hates us and labelled us \&quot;the real enemy\&quot;.  He said his party \&quot;must continue to strike fear in &#91;our&#93; hearts\&quot; and he sent his militia to drive us out of the country. \r\n\r\nOh, yes, by the way, we are all white Zimbabweans.\r\n\r\nUntil we hear Mugabe and ZANU-PF apologise for their racism and hate towards us, or until they are completely out of power and a non-racist regime is installed, I doubt whether many of us will be coming back soon. We don\&#039;t trust that crocodile and his cronies.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in contact with over 5000 Zimbabweans who fled into exile after 1997. The list reads like a who&#8217;s who of the professional and entrepreneurial classes &#8211; doctors, dentists, bankers, managers, engineers, mechanics, farmers, financiers, clerics, sportsmen, nurses, technicians, geologists, miners, teachers, businessmenn, MBA graduates, professors, chemists, accountants, speech therapists, radiologists, stockbrokers, town planners, university lecturers&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t these the exact skills that Zimbabwe needs to rebuild quickly?  </p>
<p>But Mugabe hates us and labelled us &#8220;the real enemy&#8221;.  He said his party &#8220;must continue to strike fear in [our] hearts&#8221; and he sent his militia to drive us out of the country. </p>
<p>Oh, yes, by the way, we are all white Zimbabweans.</p>
<p>Until we hear Mugabe and ZANU-PF apologise for their racism and hate towards us, or until they are completely out of power and a non-racist regime is installed, I doubt whether many of us will be coming back soon. We don&#8217;t trust that crocodile and his cronies.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271933','Graham'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271933','Graham','I am in contact with over 5000 Zimbabweans who fled into exile after 1997. The list reads like a who\'s who of the professional and entrepreneurial classes - doctors, dentists, bankers, managers, engineers, mechanics, farmers, financiers, clerics, sportsmen, nurses, technicians, geologists, miners, teachers, businessmenn, MBA graduates, professors, chemists, accountants, speech therapists, radiologists, stockbrokers, town planners, university lecturers.......\r\n\r\nAren\'t these the exact skills that Zimbabwe needs to rebuild quickly?  \r\n\r\nBut Mugabe hates us and labelled us \&quot;the real enemy\&quot;.  He said his party \&quot;must continue to strike fear in &amp;#91;our&amp;#93; hearts\&quot; and he sent his militia to drive us out of the country. \r\n\r\nOh, yes, by the way, we are all white Zimbabweans.\r\n\r\nUntil we hear Mugabe and ZANU-PF apologise for their racism and hate towards us, or until they are completely out of power and a non-racist regime is installed, I doubt whether many of us will be coming back soon. We don\'t trust that crocodile and his cronies.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: LuanshyaBlue</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271929</link>
		<dc:creator>LuanshyaBlue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271929</guid>
		<description>Quote from South Africa

&quot;Power will be shared, no one will get more power than the other party, even (in) the hiring and firing of cabinet members,&quot; the source explained. 

&quot;All decisions are made by the council, but the council will have to report back to Mugabe.&quot; 

South African newspapers also said on Friday the pact provided for a 50-50 unity government.

Is there anybody who thinks this has even the slightest chance of success? The agreement will be seen as Mbeki&#039;s &#039;get out of jail card&#039;. He is already basking in the euphoria; but he&#039;ll be eating humble pie before you can say Jack Robinson.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271929&#039;,&#039;LuanshyaBlue&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271929&#039;,&#039;LuanshyaBlue&#039;,&#039;Quote from South Africa\r\n\r\n\&quot;Power will be shared, no one will get more power than the other party, even (in) the hiring and firing of cabinet members,\&quot; the source explained. \r\n\r\n\&quot;All decisions are made by the council, but the council will have to report back to Mugabe.\&quot; \r\n\r\nSouth African newspapers also said on Friday the pact provided for a 50-50 unity government.\r\n\r\nIs there anybody who thinks this has even the slightest chance of success? The agreement will be seen as Mbeki\&#039;s \&#039;get out of jail card\&#039;. He is already basking in the euphoria; but he\&#039;ll be eating humble pie before you can say Jack Robinson.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote from South Africa</p>
<p>&#8220;Power will be shared, no one will get more power than the other party, even (in) the hiring and firing of cabinet members,&#8221; the source explained. </p>
<p>&#8220;All decisions are made by the council, but the council will have to report back to Mugabe.&#8221; </p>
<p>South African newspapers also said on Friday the pact provided for a 50-50 unity government.</p>
<p>Is there anybody who thinks this has even the slightest chance of success? The agreement will be seen as Mbeki&#8217;s &#8216;get out of jail card&#8217;. He is already basking in the euphoria; but he&#8217;ll be eating humble pie before you can say Jack Robinson.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271929','LuanshyaBlue'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271929','LuanshyaBlue','Quote from South Africa\r\n\r\n\&quot;Power will be shared, no one will get more power than the other party, even (in) the hiring and firing of cabinet members,\&quot; the source explained. \r\n\r\n\&quot;All decisions are made by the council, but the council will have to report back to Mugabe.\&quot; \r\n\r\nSouth African newspapers also said on Friday the pact provided for a 50-50 unity government.\r\n\r\nIs there anybody who thinks this has even the slightest chance of success? The agreement will be seen as Mbeki\'s \'get out of jail card\'. He is already basking in the euphoria; but he\'ll be eating humble pie before you can say Jack Robinson.'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271927</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271927</guid>
		<description>&quot;Zimbabwe power-sharing deal gives police control to MDC&quot;

&quot;The historic power-sharing deal agreed in Zimbabwe gives the Movement for Democratic Change control over the cabinet and the police force that has terrorised its supporters and activists for years, opposition officials said today.

But the president, Robert Mugabe, is to retain control of the military under the deal, which is due to be signed on Monday when full details will be revealed, according to the officials.&quot;

according to:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/zimbabwe5&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271927&#039;,&#039;William&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271927&#039;,&#039;William&#039;,&#039;\&quot;Zimbabwe power-sharing deal gives police control to MDC\&quot;\r\n\r\n\&quot;The historic power-sharing deal agreed in Zimbabwe gives the Movement for Democratic Change control over the cabinet and the police force that has terrorised its supporters and activists for years, opposition officials said today.\r\n\r\nBut the president, Robert Mugabe, is to retain control of the military under the deal, which is due to be signed on Monday when full details will be revealed, according to the officials.\&quot;\r\n\r\naccording to:\r\nhttp:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/world\/2008\/sep\/12\/zimbabwe5&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Zimbabwe power-sharing deal gives police control to MDC&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The historic power-sharing deal agreed in Zimbabwe gives the Movement for Democratic Change control over the cabinet and the police force that has terrorised its supporters and activists for years, opposition officials said today.</p>
<p>But the president, Robert Mugabe, is to retain control of the military under the deal, which is due to be signed on Monday when full details will be revealed, according to the officials.&#8221;</p>
<p>according to:<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/zimbabwe5" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/zimbabwe5</a>
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271927','William'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271927','William','\&quot;Zimbabwe power-sharing deal gives police control to MDC\&quot;\r\n\r\n\&quot;The historic power-sharing deal agreed in Zimbabwe gives the Movement for Democratic Change control over the cabinet and the police force that has terrorised its supporters and activists for years, opposition officials said today.\r\n\r\nBut the president, Robert Mugabe, is to retain control of the military under the deal, which is due to be signed on Monday when full details will be revealed, according to the officials.\&quot;\r\n\r\naccording to:\r\nhttp:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/world\/2008\/sep\/12\/zimbabwe5'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Henrik</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271926</link>
		<dc:creator>Henrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271926</guid>
		<description>Confused... Who will be in charge of the police?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271926&#039;,&#039;Henrik&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271926&#039;,&#039;Henrik&#039;,&#039;Confused... Who will be in charge of the police?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Confused&#8230; Who will be in charge of the police?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271926','Henrik'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271926','Henrik','Confused... Who will be in charge of the police?'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: tc</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271923</link>
		<dc:creator>tc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271923</guid>
		<description>Sokwanele, Hope, others, what do you think about this?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271923&#039;,&#039;tc&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271923&#039;,&#039;tc&#039;,&#039;Sokwanele, Hope, others, what do you think about this?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sokwanele, Hope, others, what do you think about this?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271923','tc'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271923','tc','Sokwanele, Hope, others, what do you think about this?'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271922</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271922</guid>
		<description>Fishy, yes, but if DC is right, it&#039;s still the biggest single concession made by Zanu-PF. Would it be right to say that this is a relatively rare example of sanctions having had a positive effect?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271922&#039;,&#039;William&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271922&#039;,&#039;William&#039;,&#039;Fishy, yes, but if DC is right, it\&#039;s still the biggest single concession made by Zanu-PF. Would it be right to say that this is a relatively rare example of sanctions having had a positive effect?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fishy, yes, but if DC is right, it&#8217;s still the biggest single concession made by Zanu-PF. Would it be right to say that this is a relatively rare example of sanctions having had a positive effect?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271922','William'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271922','William','Fishy, yes, but if DC is right, it\'s still the biggest single concession made by Zanu-PF. Would it be right to say that this is a relatively rare example of sanctions having had a positive effect?'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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		<title>By: Sirius</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/1857/comment-page-1#comment-271921</link>
		<dc:creator>Sirius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=1857#comment-271921</guid>
		<description>Sounds fishy to me. Bob still running JOC? chairs cabinet? So if T says nope i dont want that man, will Bob agree? Will Bob still have the final say in all matters despite T being 2nd in command? And this new constitution after 18mths of torture to whip the people of zimbabwe into &quot;place&quot;, will it be decided by the bunch of guys who spent the last 120 sleepless nights deciding how to carve up Zimbabwe into their own power fiefdoms or it will be a referendum? ok maybe I should wait till Monday for the full text.... :-/&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;271921&#039;,&#039;Sirius&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply to this comment&lt;/a&gt; --- &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;271921&#039;,&#039;Sirius&#039;,&#039;Sounds fishy to me. Bob still running JOC? chairs cabinet? So if T says nope i dont want that man, will Bob agree? Will Bob still have the final say in all matters despite T being 2nd in command? And this new constitution after 18mths of torture to whip the people of zimbabwe into \&quot;place\&quot;, will it be decided by the bunch of guys who spent the last 120 sleepless nights deciding how to carve up Zimbabwe into their own power fiefdoms or it will be a referendum? ok maybe I should wait till Monday for the full text.... :-\/&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote from this comment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds fishy to me. Bob still running JOC? chairs cabinet? So if T says nope i dont want that man, will Bob agree? Will Bob still have the final say in all matters despite T being 2nd in command? And this new constitution after 18mths of torture to whip the people of zimbabwe into &#8220;place&#8221;, will it be decided by the bunch of guys who spent the last 120 sleepless nights deciding how to carve up Zimbabwe into their own power fiefdoms or it will be a referendum? ok maybe I should wait till Monday for the full text&#8230;. :-/
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('271921','Sirius'); return false;">Reply to this comment</a> &#8212; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('271921','Sirius','Sounds fishy to me. Bob still running JOC? chairs cabinet? So if T says nope i dont want that man, will Bob agree? Will Bob still have the final say in all matters despite T being 2nd in command? And this new constitution after 18mths of torture to whip the people of zimbabwe into \&quot;place\&quot;, will it be decided by the bunch of guys who spent the last 120 sleepless nights deciding how to carve up Zimbabwe into their own power fiefdoms or it will be a referendum? ok maybe I should wait till Monday for the full text.... :-\/'); return false;">Quote from this comment</a></div>
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