The fire may feel aggrieved to be put out. That’s OK. It has it’s place in its circle of stones, heating the water and cooking the food. And drawing us to its warmth with the promise of a hot meal and some good companionship.

When it tries to take over the whole village, it will be put out. If it wants to go back to being useful and being part of the positive side of village life, it is very welcome. In fact, what would we do without it? We are simply reminding it – not extinguishing it forever.

Thanks for the metaphor – I have grown and learned because you cared to debate with me. Thank you.

I agree with you mostly, however, the point that I was trying to make, is that not many people seem to be supportive of what these youths did, simply because they feel that a more peaceful approach could have been used. I don’t agree. The “baddies” were simply there to edcucate them as to what happens when “you don’t support ZANU-PF”.

If they had not acted impulsively or even agressively, I think the headlines would have read: “Zimbabwe: More death and torture in the politically oppressed country”

Yes, ZANU-PF may react with more violence & clamp downs. But there is also the chance that they will start to back down. Not all of them can be so evil, & deluded for that matter, to believe that MDC is wrongfully trying to take over the government? And surely, not all of them are receiving hefty pay cheques or other forms of compensation? Surely most of them also want change, but fear torture and retribution if they speak out, as well as the burden of not being able to feed their families? Surely if they see that the people are willing to stand together (saftey in numbers) they will also contemplate it?

Again, don’t get me wrong, I am so in awe of the Zimbabwean people. You guys are truly an honourable, courageous and forgiving nation – Charactaristics of true wisdom!

I agree that you cannot fight fire with fire, or war with war. But fire will only die out on its own once it has consumed everything in its path. Water or sand etc. is needed to extinguish the fire. Sometimes a little water or sand will do the job, and other times a lot is needed.

Mugabe and his supporters are behaving like fire, an element of nature. They show no compassion for human life. They don’t seem to want/posses the skills to negotiate on peaceful terms. They don’t want to see the truth. They don’t want to give up power…

Take care

PS. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. This is only my opinion.

The pacifists always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.

No one is condemning anyone. There are tough calls to be made.

People are saying always ask if you have exhausted other channels first. And certainly don’t think because you are frightened or scared that you can behave like the people scaring you. The law just doesn’t work that way. How stupid can it be to go to jail for life when you could have walked away?

Having said that, I have stood up to soldiers and riot police plenty of times in my life. Once I nearly had my head beaten in but I have always surprised them so much that they went away. It helps to know the law and to make sure they know you know. People dear to me were not so lucky. I can assure to murder trials are not fun whatever side you are on. All you see is the waste of life is going on an d on and on.

Those of us off the front line have no reason to be over-excited. We can apply brain to thinking of alternatives. That doesn’t mean we are standing in judgment. We are trying to be the ballast that stops anyone losing their balance in what are extremely frustrating times.

Cheers mate.

Are Buffalo normally violent by nature?
Were the Buffalo provoked in any way to behave violently?
Were the Buffalo deliberately seeking revenge?

No, the Buffalo were simply motivated by the “survival instinct” to protect themselves and their herd.

I don’t advocate violence and I certainly do not wish for the outbreak of a civil war.

However, I do not understand how we as people can condemn the actions of these Zimbabweans! This has been going on for almost 10 yrs if not more! After seeing family members and friends tortured and murdered, and not knowing when it will be their turn, I take my hat off to them!

While the world is still deciding on the matter of whether the situation is “bad enough” in Zim for international or UN intervention, people continue to die.

These guys managed to stand up to their oppressors, and send them the message that they have had enough: WITHOUT burning, beating, torturing, mutilating or murdering any of them.

Well done!

Or in other words, which route would the angels prefer to tread?

Some orginisations will wait for change and will then assist Zimbabwe. They have little choice but to wait. Perhaps, if I may suggest, be careful of perhaps putting pressure on the very orginisations who may have been preparing to help. I have no doubt that Germany will assist rather than hinder.

Thanks. Lord knows how many people we owe money to! I think ‘De La Rue’ in the UK/Channel Isles used to supply some money, but I may be wrong.

For now, the debts are good leverage!

I would hope that the companies will stop there efforts to retrieve the debt when Mugabe goes. At the moment (without a UN mandate) that is the only way to impose ‘sanctions’.
The money should then be claimed out of the JOCs personal fortunes.

From what I understand it is very difficult to get any information about german banks. They did not have to disclose their holdings/interests when I was still living in Germany. Things might have changed though…

Definetely we should keep up the the pressure on G&D but the truth is that virtually all paper money worldwide is printed with german help. If its not a german company printing it, its another company or national bank printing theirs using german-made printing presses.

Those hard pointy things on the buffaloes heads..they are called ‘horns’…

(whispers) Dont tell anyone I said this… but I think god put them there as a deterence against predators like lions. But only to throw the lions in the air and maybe gore them to death non-violently.

That’s what I saw when I read this. I’m sorry to see people trying to make semantic points out of what to me is a truly inspiring story. Those of us who aren’t there shouldn’t be theorising, but when we read something like this post we should be cheering from the side lines and doing anything we can to help. Well done Zimbabwe, keep going!

Zimbabwe is about to be delivered, history is in the making. Today the world was with you in prayer. God bless you all.

I have just found the name of the debt collection agency and the German bank who are trying to recover their money.

Don’t think we should pay! Particularly as German bank notes have been instrumental in fueling inflation, nonetheless, this is effective sanctions.

Perhaps you could do some research on these firms in case we can use the info in some way?

Hope you and yours are well
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/04/27/afx4938023.html

Mahatma Gandhi

Where evil men would seek to perpetuate an unjust status quo, good men must
seek to bring into being a real order of justice”

Martin Luther King Jr