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	<title>Comments on: ZEC announces presidential poll results</title>
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	<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933</link>
	<description>This is Zimbabwe is Sokwanele's pro-democracy activist blog. It provides grassroots news and views from Zimbabwe.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cricket</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-217918</link>
		<dc:creator>Cricket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 08:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>MDC you have to show ZANU-PF that it's time to retire peasefully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MDC you have to show ZANU-PF that it&#8217;s time to retire peasefully.</p>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Africa news: Zimbabwe election results finally announced and other stories</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-217172</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Africa news: Zimbabwe election results finally announced and other stories</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 15:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-217172</guid>
		<description>[...] the not-so-breaking news from Zimbabwe, where on Friday the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission finally released the presidential election results over a month after the election. The results: no winner, with a runoff anticipated between the two [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the not-so-breaking news from Zimbabwe, where on Friday the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission finally released the presidential election results over a month after the election. The results: no winner, with a runoff anticipated between the two [...]</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216505</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 01:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-216505</guid>
		<description>guys - dont feed the trolls! ("Kevin").</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>guys - dont feed the trolls! (&#8221;Kevin&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: scotchcart</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216265</link>
		<dc:creator>scotchcart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@True Grit,
Nice layout.  This is where I think we are.
1.  Unprecedented change in Zimbabwe.  Incumbent party and president is defeated peacefully in a democratic poll.
2. Results at the parliamentary level have been rechecked and the defeat was confirmed.
3. Results at the presidential level suggest the challenge missed out an outright victory by 0.1%.  These results have not been verified and are different from those collated by the challengers.
4. A 5 week delay in an exercise expected to take 24 hours has lowered confidence in the technocrats.
5. Tensions and violence in this election and previous elections make people reluctant to take part in unnecessary runoffs.
WHERE TO NEXT
6.  As the election was already under scrutiny and subject to prior mediation by the regional economic grouping, SADC, and because there is another level of international government  between SADC and the UNSC, the leader of the victorious party will appeal first to SADC to use their good offices to have the results properly verified.
7. If and only if, the challengers are satisfied that the numbers produced by the technocrats are correct and they missed out by 0.1%, then they will re-run with full international observers AND bodyguards who will be responsible for their safety.
WHERE ARE WE NOW
The leader of the victorious challenging party traveled to Lusaka to see the current head of SADC who is also President of Zambia.
The vice-president also indicated that the president will go on to Ghana to seek to the UN SG Ban Ki-moon.
[wasn't that last weekend?]
We congratulate the people of Zimbabwe for showing their commitment to democracy to the world.  The situation is tense largely because all sides believe they will not get a fair hearing.  We ask the world for their support at this time to show the Zimbabwean people they were not foolish to put their faith in democracy and the voting booth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@True Grit,<br />
Nice layout.  This is where I think we are.<br />
1.  Unprecedented change in Zimbabwe.  Incumbent party and president is defeated peacefully in a democratic poll.<br />
2. Results at the parliamentary level have been rechecked and the defeat was confirmed.<br />
3. Results at the presidential level suggest the challenge missed out an outright victory by 0.1%.  These results have not been verified and are different from those collated by the challengers.<br />
4. A 5 week delay in an exercise expected to take 24 hours has lowered confidence in the technocrats.<br />
5. Tensions and violence in this election and previous elections make people reluctant to take part in unnecessary runoffs.<br />
WHERE TO NEXT<br />
6.  As the election was already under scrutiny and subject to prior mediation by the regional economic grouping, SADC, and because there is another level of international government  between SADC and the UNSC, the leader of the victorious party will appeal first to SADC to use their good offices to have the results properly verified.<br />
7. If and only if, the challengers are satisfied that the numbers produced by the technocrats are correct and they missed out by 0.1%, then they will re-run with full international observers AND bodyguards who will be responsible for their safety.<br />
WHERE ARE WE NOW<br />
The leader of the victorious challenging party traveled to Lusaka to see the current head of SADC who is also President of Zambia.<br />
The vice-president also indicated that the president will go on to Ghana to seek to the UN SG Ban Ki-moon.<br />
[wasn't that last weekend?]<br />
We congratulate the people of Zimbabwe for showing their commitment to democracy to the world.  The situation is tense largely because all sides believe they will not get a fair hearing.  We ask the world for their support at this time to show the Zimbabwean people they were not foolish to put their faith in democracy and the voting booth.</p>
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		<title>By: scotchcart</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216249</link>
		<dc:creator>scotchcart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>
Where did my last comment go??  That link to a story out of Dar describes EA lawyers looking at ways to take China to the ICC in The Hague.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where did my last comment go??  That link to a story out of Dar describes EA lawyers looking at ways to take China to the ICC in The Hague.</p>
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		<title>By: scotchcart</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216246</link>
		<dc:creator>scotchcart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafrican/current/News/newsfc050520080.htm
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafrican/current/News/newsfc050520080.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafrican/current/News/newsfc050520080.htm</a><br />
 <br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216221</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 18:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-216221</guid>
		<description>@ True Grit

Of course it makes perfect sense for ZANU to lose then win...it gives the veneer of legitimacy and lets then set the pace...ask the only question you need to ask.WHO STILL HAS POWER regardless of all the noise and bluster...

The sad truth is that MDC has stick only a carrot thus NO bargaining tool, ZANU isnt as internationally isolated or unpopular as people want to think...
 Knowing for months it was all a big trap (an election set up by your enemy???) what was the MDC internal strategy ???...The very idea that they promote their non-violence as such a virtue is a wonderful thing for ZANU who know there are no consequences or come backs...not even the illusion of a reaction ....Now imagine a genocidal school bully that knows theres no authority?

People have placed so much on what OTHERS must do or say... where are their own plans???

As I said I take you for a realist ....Go round the world and youll see at least 40 countries in the 'trouble spot' que ahead of Zimbabwe where the whole world is watching (which it actually isnt). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ True Grit</p>
<p>Of course it makes perfect sense for ZANU to lose then win&#8230;it gives the veneer of legitimacy and lets then set the pace&#8230;ask the only question you need to ask.WHO STILL HAS POWER regardless of all the noise and bluster&#8230;</p>
<p>The sad truth is that MDC has stick only a carrot thus NO bargaining tool, ZANU isnt as internationally isolated or unpopular as people want to think&#8230;<br />
 Knowing for months it was all a big trap (an election set up by your enemy???) what was the MDC internal strategy ???&#8230;The very idea that they promote their non-violence as such a virtue is a wonderful thing for ZANU who know there are no consequences or come backs&#8230;not even the illusion of a reaction &#8230;.Now imagine a genocidal school bully that knows theres no authority?</p>
<p>People have placed so much on what OTHERS must do or say&#8230; where are their own plans???</p>
<p>As I said I take you for a realist &#8230;.Go round the world and youll see at least 40 countries in the &#8216;trouble spot&#8217; que ahead of Zimbabwe where the whole world is watching (which it actually isnt). </p>
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		<title>By: True Grit</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216181</link>
		<dc:creator>True Grit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 18:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-216181</guid>
		<description>2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION -

ZANU-PF PLAN 'A'
To induce the electoral officials to come up with a fraudulent result.

ZANU-PF PLAN 'B' (1)
To come up with a real alternative plan.

ZANU-PF PLAN 'B' (2)
Engineer a run-off as a fall-back strategy, backed by a ruthless campaign of intimidation against MDC activists.

THE MDC's DILEMMA -
If it competes in a second round it faces further intimidation. But unless regional governments back its view that a second round is 'unjust', to decline to compete would hand victory to Mugabe on a plate.

CONCLUSION -
The whole world is watching, and contesting a second round after conceding a first round defeat is not what Zanu-PF intended. At the end of a five week debacle all they have achieved is to buy a little time. But, for what ?What have they really achieved?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION -</p>
<p>ZANU-PF PLAN &#8216;A&#8217;<br />
To induce the electoral officials to come up with a fraudulent result.</p>
<p>ZANU-PF PLAN &#8216;B&#8217; (1)<br />
To come up with a real alternative plan.</p>
<p>ZANU-PF PLAN &#8216;B&#8217; (2)<br />
Engineer a run-off as a fall-back strategy, backed by a ruthless campaign of intimidation against MDC activists.</p>
<p>THE MDC&#8217;s DILEMMA -<br />
If it competes in a second round it faces further intimidation. But unless regional governments back its view that a second round is &#8216;unjust&#8217;, to decline to compete would hand victory to Mugabe on a plate.</p>
<p>CONCLUSION -<br />
The whole world is watching, and contesting a second round after conceding a first round defeat is not what Zanu-PF intended. At the end of a five week debacle all they have achieved is to buy a little time. But, for what ?What have they really achieved?</p>
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		<title>By: traps</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-216050</link>
		<dc:creator>traps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 15:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Our prayers and thoughts are with you guys at this terrible time in your history.

May the end of Mugabe now be in sight and a new dawn appear for all Zimbabweans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our prayers and thoughts are with you guys at this terrible time in your history.</p>
<p>May the end of Mugabe now be in sight and a new dawn appear for all Zimbabweans.</p>
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		<title>By: MDC NDIZVO</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-215797</link>
		<dc:creator>MDC NDIZVO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 08:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-215797</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;mdc ndizvo
MDC MUST ACCEPT THE RUN OFF BECAUSE WE WANT TO SHOW ZANU THAT WE NO LONGER WANT THEM.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>mdc ndizvo<br />
MDC MUST ACCEPT THE RUN OFF BECAUSE WE WANT TO SHOW ZANU THAT WE NO LONGER WANT THEM.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Charles Worringham</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-215577</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Worringham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 03:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-215577</guid>
		<description>It's obviously not right for those observers from afar, like me, - to presume to advise any of you about how to respond to the possibility of a re-run.  You face the challenges - we don't.
 
But three things go through my mind:
1.  Mugabe lost the election - badly - even by the obscure ZEC count.  This should give heart to his democratic opponents - you have the numbers!
2.  A party or candidate always has the right to participate - even under protest  - but still withold their judgment about the fairness of the process.
3. If there is a run-off, it would help to get as much INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE  as possible of the parallel tabulation (photos of polling place result notices etc.) published on the web as soon as it becomes available.  Every  polling place result that can be shown to be genuine and can literally be seen by the world is one less result that can be used to steal the election.
Of course this can't be done everywhere, but it could make any fraud much more obvious.  If  Morgan Tsvagarai's support clearly holds up at polling places where it is possible and safe enough to photograph and webcast the results, who would believe a major swing to Mugabe in places where it is neither?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s obviously not right for those observers from afar, like me, - to presume to advise any of you about how to respond to the possibility of a re-run.  You face the challenges - we don&#8217;t.<br />
 <br />
But three things go through my mind:<br />
1.  Mugabe lost the election - badly - even by the obscure ZEC count.  This should give heart to his democratic opponents - you have the numbers!<br />
2.  A party or candidate always has the right to participate - even under protest  - but still withold their judgment about the fairness of the process.<br />
3. If there is a run-off, it would help to get as much INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE  as possible of the parallel tabulation (photos of polling place result notices etc.) published on the web as soon as it becomes available.  Every  polling place result that can be shown to be genuine and can literally be seen by the world is one less result that can be used to steal the election.<br />
Of course this can&#8217;t be done everywhere, but it could make any fraud much more obvious.  If  Morgan Tsvagarai&#8217;s support clearly holds up at polling places where it is possible and safe enough to photograph and webcast the results, who would believe a major swing to Mugabe in places where it is neither?</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-215321</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 22:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-215321</guid>
		<description>@ Mambo

The quest is to find people on this site who see the need for rules of engagement in the first place.

One thing to note is that some here dont like  have an objective (see the facts) relationship with the truth. 

They shape the facts and evidence...often emotinally in order to justify positions that offer no solution but just go round in a circle, back to the square one of..... 
A 'Waiting for Godot'... type POLITICAL farce.
&lt;em&gt;
(opposition1)"Bob must go!!!!"...
(opposition2) "ok how do we get rid of him?"
(opposition1) "civic angst , and international pressure".
(commonsense )..er...that doesnt work by itself, you need more inputs.
(opposition1) "Silence !!!..I have a cunning plan... this time we will try civic angst and international pressure."
&lt;/em&gt;
As you said in a prior post ...all this was predictable... but even while the trap was seen months ago ...people chose to fall into it and make the same excuses about how failure is actually success and (as in 2005) say that the international community (a body split by self interest) MUST do something...all this while people are dying.

Rather than see that this is a deadly serious issue...(a power struggle) that needs due care and respect. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mambo</p>
<p>The quest is to find people on this site who see the need for rules of engagement in the first place.</p>
<p>One thing to note is that some here dont like  have an objective (see the facts) relationship with the truth. </p>
<p>They shape the facts and evidence&#8230;often emotinally in order to justify positions that offer no solution but just go round in a circle, back to the square one of&#8230;..<br />
A &#8216;Waiting for Godot&#8217;&#8230; type POLITICAL farce.<br />
<em><br />
(opposition1)&#8221;Bob must go!!!!&#8221;&#8230;<br />
(opposition2) &#8220;ok how do we get rid of him?&#8221;<br />
(opposition1) &#8220;civic angst , and international pressure&#8221;.<br />
(commonsense )..er&#8230;that doesnt work by itself, you need more inputs.<br />
(opposition1) &#8220;Silence !!!..I have a cunning plan&#8230; this time we will try civic angst and international pressure.&#8221;<br />
</em><br />
As you said in a prior post &#8230;all this was predictable&#8230; but even while the trap was seen months ago &#8230;people chose to fall into it and make the same excuses about how failure is actually success and (as in 2005) say that the international community (a body split by self interest) MUST do something&#8230;all this while people are dying.</p>
<p>Rather than see that this is a deadly serious issue&#8230;(a power struggle) that needs due care and respect. </p>
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		<title>By: mambo</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-215086</link>
		<dc:creator>mambo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 18:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-215086</guid>
		<description>I hope behind all this public posturing by the parties involved in this latest convulsion, some sensible discussion is being held behind closed doors and you can bet its around green baize tables that we might see a way forward. I have said in one thread and I will repeat it again in this one.

The MDC has everything to lose by entering into a re-match which they very well know ZANU does not intend to loose. Can't you see these guys mean business when they hand the world phony results? They are deadly serious and no amount of international excoriating will change, a thing they are irredeemable and don't care - and of course certifiable- the whole goddamn lot!!! No the fight with ZANU has to be in another space and that's what well meaning people should be doing,finding that space and defining the rules of engagement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope behind all this public posturing by the parties involved in this latest convulsion, some sensible discussion is being held behind closed doors and you can bet its around green baize tables that we might see a way forward. I have said in one thread and I will repeat it again in this one.</p>
<p>The MDC has everything to lose by entering into a re-match which they very well know ZANU does not intend to loose. Can&#8217;t you see these guys mean business when they hand the world phony results? They are deadly serious and no amount of international excoriating will change, a thing they are irredeemable and don&#8217;t care - and of course certifiable- the whole goddamn lot!!! No the fight with ZANU has to be in another space and that&#8217;s what well meaning people should be doing,finding that space and defining the rules of engagement.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214897</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 14:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214897</guid>
		<description>@ Kevin: Where does this fantasy about Western puppets and stooges come from? To begin with, as our President has pointed out on several occasions, the values of democracy and freedom of speech are not a Western thing but a universal thing. Just because people in the "West" enjoy these basic rights and want others to share them, does not mean that those who champion such rights are working on behalf of some "Western Agenda". It is only in a dictatorship (or a would-be dictatorship) that what is said by media and civil society is seen as a reflection of the State's agenda. 

Meanwhile politicians in the West often champion democractic ideals that they don't live up to. Indeed the more the Western nations fall short of those ideals in one part of the world, the more they will look for opportunities to talk about them elsewhere. The only "Agenda" in that is the agenda of wanting to remain electable at home - in a democracy that's all that drives any political leader. 

I have been involved with the MDC right since 2000, in London, and I can assure you that if the MDC had any "backers", Western or otherwise, I would know about them by now. They do not exist. MDC is just a political party made up of Zimbabweans for Zimbabwe. 

Maybe it's part of the damage that Smith and his ilk did to our country and people, when someone like Mugabe can't take a black person seriously without thinking that there must be white people behind him pulling the strings. I thought we had moved on from that. No-one needs foreign influence in order to think differently or to believe in democracy and the right to choose one's own government. A little bit of well-placed pride in Zimbabweans and their ability to think for themselves, would go a long way here. No one needs Americans or Chinese, British or Russians or South Africans to do their thinking for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevin: Where does this fantasy about Western puppets and stooges come from? To begin with, as our President has pointed out on several occasions, the values of democracy and freedom of speech are not a Western thing but a universal thing. Just because people in the &#8220;West&#8221; enjoy these basic rights and want others to share them, does not mean that those who champion such rights are working on behalf of some &#8220;Western Agenda&#8221;. It is only in a dictatorship (or a would-be dictatorship) that what is said by media and civil society is seen as a reflection of the State&#8217;s agenda. </p>
<p>Meanwhile politicians in the West often champion democractic ideals that they don&#8217;t live up to. Indeed the more the Western nations fall short of those ideals in one part of the world, the more they will look for opportunities to talk about them elsewhere. The only &#8220;Agenda&#8221; in that is the agenda of wanting to remain electable at home - in a democracy that&#8217;s all that drives any political leader. </p>
<p>I have been involved with the MDC right since 2000, in London, and I can assure you that if the MDC had any &#8220;backers&#8221;, Western or otherwise, I would know about them by now. They do not exist. MDC is just a political party made up of Zimbabweans for Zimbabwe. </p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s part of the damage that Smith and his ilk did to our country and people, when someone like Mugabe can&#8217;t take a black person seriously without thinking that there must be white people behind him pulling the strings. I thought we had moved on from that. No-one needs foreign influence in order to think differently or to believe in democracy and the right to choose one&#8217;s own government. A little bit of well-placed pride in Zimbabweans and their ability to think for themselves, would go a long way here. No one needs Americans or Chinese, British or Russians or South Africans to do their thinking for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ants</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214762</link>
		<dc:creator>Ants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 11:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214762</guid>
		<description>The trouble with Kevin Hughes, is that he just manages to piss most of us off.  I've been wrong before, but I would venture he is not much of a Zimbabwean - maybe only an armchair one who sits safely somewhere in an ivory tower in the civilised world and mouths off about a topic he has little grip on.

Sokwanele 'prints' his comments in a noble effort to be non-partisan, so the rest of us who can't help being VERY PARTISAN (&#38; I'm not ashamed of being vehemantly anti-Bob) must simply skip over his diatribe.

It is clearly a minority view point and as far as I can tell very unhelpful.  So don't let it spoil your day...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trouble with Kevin Hughes, is that he just manages to piss most of us off.  I&#8217;ve been wrong before, but I would venture he is not much of a Zimbabwean - maybe only an armchair one who sits safely somewhere in an ivory tower in the civilised world and mouths off about a topic he has little grip on.</p>
<p>Sokwanele &#8216;prints&#8217; his comments in a noble effort to be non-partisan, so the rest of us who can&#8217;t help being VERY PARTISAN (&amp; I&#8217;m not ashamed of being vehemantly anti-Bob) must simply skip over his diatribe.</p>
<p>It is clearly a minority view point and as far as I can tell very unhelpful.  So don&#8217;t let it spoil your day&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214754</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 11:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214754</guid>
		<description>@ Kevin

you really make me laugh. I can picture you sitting there at your keyboard winding us all up, trying to raise our hackles...but I just laugh out loud...wonderful stuff from our resident jester!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevin</p>
<p>you really make me laugh. I can picture you sitting there at your keyboard winding us all up, trying to raise our hackles&#8230;but I just laugh out loud&#8230;wonderful stuff from our resident jester!</p>
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		<title>By: VoteKount</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214683</link>
		<dc:creator>VoteKount</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 09:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214683</guid>
		<description>While are all the news sites giving us  reaction to results instead of the actual results themselve. Please give us the figures for all the foor candidates, not just percantages. We want to analyse them and c if they add up. Zimbabwean news site should report these things in deatail, not just give us summarised reports that lack detail like the International press.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While are all the news sites giving us  reaction to results instead of the actual results themselve. Please give us the figures for all the foor candidates, not just percantages. We want to analyse them and c if they add up. Zimbabwean news site should report these things in deatail, not just give us summarised reports that lack detail like the International press.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214660</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 09:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214660</guid>
		<description>The American Civil War... the Union had to go through 7 Army commanders before they found in U.S. Grant someone who could beat Robert E. Lee.

World War II...the Allies went through many years and combinations of commanders before... finally coming across the people who would eventually dismantle the Axis.

Unlike Hope says I dont think people claim the work done on this site is unimportant...but having gone round in a big predictable circle YET AGAIN, from rigged election to foressen outcome... 

The question becomes...why believe its all that will be needed... when will people finally admit that a single track method isnt going to dent a Maoist dictatorship supported by SA / China. 

History vouches for a combination approach of external pressure and specialist interventions by boots on the ground. 

Trying to use the 'colour revolution' (economic strife=civil unrest) approach only works on populations that are not scared and apathetic who have organised properly inside the target nation. To pretend that its all non violent is a lie.

People claiming the mantle of the MLK approach ignore the fact that he wasnt seeking to overthrow the USA government...

However this whole ZDERA project is about regime change ...from the inception of the MDC til now. 

The very fact that the money supporting many Zimbabwe pro change civic groups comes from... can be ignored but not dismissed.eg VOA-STUDIO7 and others.

Thus again to the the issue....after yet another... one wing take off... and more unnecessary deaths when are people going to admit the real intention is regime change and do the ugly job properly.... or are they going to continue to mix their peaceful facade with the necessary methodology?  


Nelson Mandela is lauded by many as the epitome of civilized man, yet even he saw it was a mixed approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American Civil War&#8230; the Union had to go through 7 Army commanders before they found in U.S. Grant someone who could beat Robert E. Lee.</p>
<p>World War II&#8230;the Allies went through many years and combinations of commanders before&#8230; finally coming across the people who would eventually dismantle the Axis.</p>
<p>Unlike Hope says I dont think people claim the work done on this site is unimportant&#8230;but having gone round in a big predictable circle YET AGAIN, from rigged election to foressen outcome&#8230; </p>
<p>The question becomes&#8230;why believe its all that will be needed&#8230; when will people finally admit that a single track method isnt going to dent a Maoist dictatorship supported by SA / China. </p>
<p>History vouches for a combination approach of external pressure and specialist interventions by boots on the ground. </p>
<p>Trying to use the &#8216;colour revolution&#8217; (economic strife=civil unrest) approach only works on populations that are not scared and apathetic who have organised properly inside the target nation. To pretend that its all non violent is a lie.</p>
<p>People claiming the mantle of the MLK approach ignore the fact that he wasnt seeking to overthrow the USA government&#8230;</p>
<p>However this whole ZDERA project is about regime change &#8230;from the inception of the MDC til now. </p>
<p>The very fact that the money supporting many Zimbabwe pro change civic groups comes from&#8230; can be ignored but not dismissed.eg VOA-STUDIO7 and others.</p>
<p>Thus again to the the issue&#8230;.after yet another&#8230; one wing take off&#8230; and more unnecessary deaths when are people going to admit the real intention is regime change and do the ugly job properly&#8230;. or are they going to continue to mix their peaceful facade with the necessary methodology?  </p>
<p>Nelson Mandela is lauded by many as the epitome of civilized man, yet even he saw it was a mixed approach.</p>
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		<title>By: exbulawayo</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214656</link>
		<dc:creator>exbulawayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 09:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214656</guid>
		<description>It seems someone has to come and remove Bob, the question is who ?It is a reality that something from the outside needs to happen and by that I mean SA and China needs to be excluded for very obvious reasons.How much more and how much longer before the bubble bursts ? Do we as a peaceful people have to be pushed to the bitter end first ? I don't think so. May this come to an end soon now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems someone has to come and remove Bob, the question is who ?It is a reality that something from the outside needs to happen and by that I mean SA and China needs to be excluded for very obvious reasons.How much more and how much longer before the bubble bursts ? Do we as a peaceful people have to be pushed to the bitter end first ? I don&#8217;t think so. May this come to an end soon now.</p>
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		<title>By: 4th Chimurenga</title>
		<link>http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/933#comment-214639</link>
		<dc:creator>4th Chimurenga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 08:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/?p=933#comment-214639</guid>
		<description>@ Kevi Hughes
You mentined that:
"No need for a second round as Mugabe has proven his ability to keep the country together through these difficult times"
...Are you cognisant of the fact that Mugabe was beaten during the first round of the election. He had the state machinery and used everybody's taxes and appointed his loyal men to conduct the elections only to lose the elections. ZANU PF alleges the elections were rigged BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE APPOINTED
 EXCLUSIVELY BY THEM? Asuumming that its true, then it implies that his "supporters" no longer want him.. You also say Mugabe has "kept the country together".. man where are you saying this from? Mars? UMP?.. Do you know that 3million Zimbabweans have fled the country in the last 10 years? Is that what you call"keeping the country together"..
I am however glad that you agree that these are difficult times indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevi Hughes<br />
You mentined that:<br />
&#8220;No need for a second round as Mugabe has proven his ability to keep the country together through these difficult times&#8221;<br />
&#8230;Are you cognisant of the fact that Mugabe was beaten during the first round of the election. He had the state machinery and used everybody&#8217;s taxes and appointed his loyal men to conduct the elections only to lose the elections. ZANU PF alleges the elections were rigged BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE APPOINTED<br />
 EXCLUSIVELY BY THEM? Asuumming that its true, then it implies that his &#8220;supporters&#8221; no longer want him.. You also say Mugabe has &#8220;kept the country together&#8221;.. man where are you saying this from? Mars? UMP?.. Do you know that 3million Zimbabweans have fled the country in the last 10 years? Is that what you call&#8221;keeping the country together&#8221;..<br />
I am however glad that you agree that these are difficult times indeed.</p>
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