ZEC announces presidential poll results
Breaking news via the BBC:
The long-awaited results of Zimbabwe’s presidential poll have been announced, with opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai winning, but not outright.
Election officials say Mr Tsvangirai beat President Robert Mugabe by winning 47.9% of the vote and faces a re-run.
Mr Tsvangirai’s party, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), earlier said it would reject the results if they showed he had less than 50%.
The MDC accuses Mugabe supporters of rigging the vote and of intimidation
Update: More from the BBC (thanks CC)
“This whole thing is a scandal, scandalous daylight robbery and everyone knows that,” said Mr Chamisa.
“We won this election outright, and yet what we are being given here as the outcome are some fudged figures meant to save Mugabe and Zanu-PF.”
The Secretary General of the MDC, Tendai Biti, told the BBC that the process to verify the electoral result was “aborted prematurely” as the MDC was trying to “expose fraud”.
May 2nd, 2008 15:38
Short by 2500 votes? Where was the original arithmetic supposed to be wrong?
May 2nd, 2008 15:49
According to BBC MDC are saying that negotiations were broken off abruptly when they started presenting evidence of fraud.
If they can’t present evidence in the room, why not outside the room. Is it possible to get hold of copies of the ‘forensic evidence’, i.e. the photos of results on the doors, especially disputed results, then put them all over the place and not let the politicians (I mean Mbeki & co) be able to ignore them.
Who ARE the people behind zimelectionresults.com?
May 2nd, 2008 15:51
A reliable source informed me that about 120 000 ZANU ballots had to be stuffed to force a re run and narrow the difference between MDC and ZANU so that it be becomes “realistically” possible to rig the run-off…… THATS THE ZANU WAY OF DOING THINGS..
One wonders how these results leaked to ZANU PF members when in fact ZEC is an “independent body”
SOKWANELE… Is it possible that we start a campaign for conditions for MDC to contest a run-off.. I have a few sugeestions
1….Zimbabweans in exile should vote.
2….SADC should conduct the elections not ZEC
3….International Observer presence
4….Un peace keeping forces in the rural ..Zimbabwe to avoid the widespread intimidation
May 2nd, 2008 16:10
OK. Can everyone follow 4th Chimurenga’s lead and list the things you think we should be demanding as Zimbabweans.
No weapons, arms etc … don’t waste your time writing thesis on the merits of these please. They won’t be published.
One other thing - you see the little icon in the sidebar with the words ‘Supporting Zimbabwe’ alongside it…? And below this comment box? Please click on it. We may never email you, but it would be good to have a list of skills available so we can react faster if we need too.
Anyone who thinks the work we do here doesn’t matter needs to be aware that it really does. We received emails today from two press sources thanking us for the alert on the Munroe story, which is only being written about now in some countries and I suspect it may be down to your efforts here. I will add this as an update comment on the Munroe thread as well.
Hope
May 2nd, 2008 16:23
At last, what a wait and I hope it was worth it. I think the MDC should just contest the re-run because they will (I think) and if the don’t run there will be no one to blame for ZANU PF winning unopposed, by running we collect more and more evidence of rigging one day it will catch up with the perpertrators.
These boycotts played a very big role in the split of MDC anyway, not again please!
May 2nd, 2008 16:31
4th Chimurenga,
Your suggestions for the run-off are quite reasonable. But one thing you forget my friend is that as we speak Mugabe is still in control of the state machinery. And this includes ZEC.
That aside, do you realistically see SADC standing up to Mugabe? Mugabe tells SADC what to do and not the other way round. Rest assured if he is pressured into allowing SADC to come and conduct the elections he is likely to allow officials from Angola and Mozambique knowing they cannot speak English and they would find it extremely difficult to figure out the whole run-off process. By the time they get their heads in the right direction Grace will be halfway repainting state house in preparation for a few more years there. I think people should just rise up and take to the streets demanding that he step down. On second thoughts, that’s not a wise idea because he will simply unleash the forces on them. Nevertheless, there has got to be someway of getting to him. Guys let’s try and help Tsvangison. The problem with Morgan is his mental stamina isn’t that strong. One on one he has no chance against Mugabe. We need someone who can beat the oldman at his own game and in my mind Tsvangirai falls short. Had it been Mutambara or Makoni, the scenario might have been a bit different. We must pray guys because Tsvangirai will need nothing short of a miracle to outwit the ZanuPF criminal gang. Other than that we might as well as prepare ourselves for another five years under the leadership of oldman Bob.
May 2nd, 2008 16:51
ZANU PF has been trying to psychologically prepare people for a runoff. Why if they knew they had lost was it necessary for people to die and be maimed like this. I am angry very very angry. RE Chimurenga’s post any brilliant ideas on how else to influence Mbeki and the AU. A friend in the Netherlands has been able to talk to the SA ambassodor there and I am going trying to do the same here in the UK so we can try and get intra-ANC pressure. Any other brilliant ideas that we can collectively work on.
May 2nd, 2008 17:04
Your views are Tsvangirai lack of mental stamin are so right, we have to shake hands or that one.
May 2nd, 2008 17:08
Realism, removal plans that work and commonsense…oh and the ‘non-violent’ people stopping the violence in the rural areas …As suggested from Monday…
May 2nd, 2008 17:11
Firstly, they bribe people to vote
Then they tell all the army and police to vote for them or else
Then weeks before the presidential results are out, they start talking of a run-off, these privileged people who are they, it is day light robbery…
Then they say, because you did not vote for Zanu you deserve to die or be tortured or displaced, may they R.I.P.
Then they say yes if a run off is done we accept…who beleives that..
I strongly recommend that MDC does not do a re-run as many other bloggers have said.
PLEASE MDC…LET THE TSOTSI’S, THE SELLOUTS, THE OPPRESSORS AND THE SELF SEEKING PEOPLE HAVE THEIR SO CALLED SHAM OF A DEFAULT WIN FOR NOW, BUT OUR TIME WILL COME, OUR GOD IS A LOVING BUT A JUST GOD.
May 2nd, 2008 17:14
@ Jassy
Taking to the streets has obvious fatal consequences in Zimbabwe especially during the inevitable election campaign for the run-off. I am against your idea of letting either Mutambara or Makoni hijack the revolution simply because they are academically superior.Unity is ok but not handing over authority!! We cannot at this point appoint suspicious characters who costed the party an outright victory. This is not a time for experimenting but its the time for improving from were we left from. If the combination of Makoni & Mutambara failed to attract the electorate then what guarantee do you have that either of them will unseat Mugabe? My suggestion is that we try persuade SADC to satisfy certain conditions for a free election. This is somehow effective because prior to this elections a few amendments were made (Although ZANU doesn’t normally respect the law)
May 2nd, 2008 17:34
We have saying in politics here “Today is a good day to bury bad news”. What I mean is this rigged result could have been released any day in the last few weeks but the old guy waited until today. One small reason could have been that there were national council elections across the UK yesterday with results out today (the votes counted and results released in about 12 hours - Hear that Bob?) This means the UK media today is full of that story, and the plight of Zimbabwe takes a back seat. It also means that the British PM is now less influential internationally as his party lost heavily in the elections (although they are still in power).
This could be one reason the results came out today, the UK at least won’t be watching as closely as it does on every other day.
Be sure that the people of Britain will support all your efforts to install the government your people voted for and end your long struggle.
Brian
May 2nd, 2008 18:57
Good on you 4th Chim, for kicking off. I agree with Brian. If you are talking to British politicians, target the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This is a good idea to get them to promise to ask questions.
And Beth - the idea of talking to SADC countries. I think that is a good idea. Asking them to take a role in bringing this to a positive conclusion. Each email counts. The diplomats write reports back to their home countries.
And the Security Council meeting next week.
Last I heard, Biti announced MDC would not run. We should maybe brainstorm for 24 hours to see how that unfolds . .
And watch the An Yue Jiang.
What does everyone else think?
May 2nd, 2008 19:01
Plot to assassinate MDC officials unearthed.
2nd May 2008 - MDC Pressroom
A group of 18 snipers has been assembled in Harare in a bid to assassinate MDC officials following the defeat of Zanu PF in the 29 March elections.
The killers have set up a satellite base opposite Support Unit in Chikurubi, Harare.
The team has been supplied with 10 new Toyota Hilux single cab vehicles which have number plates that range from ABD 1650 to 1659 among other equipment.
Their main targets in the operation; are all MDC officials including Members of Parliament and key members of the MDC secretariat based at Harvest House in central Harare.
They have been briefed to kill or maim those officials who are involved in the day to day operations of the party.
The Zanu PF youth militia and other armed people purporting to be from the ZNA and police have been assaulting MDC supporters across the country in an attempt to cripple the operations of the party following victory in the 29 March elections.
At least 20 MDC activists have been killed by Zanu PF members while hundreds have been displaced from their homes after they had been burnt or destroyed.
The displaced MDC supporters are now in need of humanitarian assistance.
Scores of MDC activists have also been arrested on trumped up charges across the country as efforts to weaken the party mount.
However, the MDC remains resolute it will emerge victorious following its impressive performance in the elections.
Last week Harvest House was raided by the police who took away important MDC documents including computers in its attempts to stifle the operations of the party.
http://www.mdc.co.zw/newsbody.asp?newsid=77
May 2nd, 2008 20:16
ZIMBABWEAN PEOPLE, THE 8TH WONDER OF THE WORLD.
Guys follow the link below and read this article and tell me what you think. It made me feel sad.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-zimbabwe-election_thursmay01,0,90096.story
May 2nd, 2008 20:31
United Nations Security Council announced that it would not dispatch a special envoy to Zimbabwe to help resolve the crisis because South Africa and China opposed the measure.. It is clear here that SA and China have similar interests in Mugabe. Mbeki should know that he was not appointed by Zimbabweans to mediate so he should just step down. He has failed a simple test to prove that he has balls..?
May 2nd, 2008 21:08
Don’t know about you guys but I’m feeling a bit burned out tonight. It’s not as though we didn’t know this (fake run-off) was going to happen but somehow when it does, it’s still hard to take - especially for South Africans because we just know what our Government’s reaction will be and want to throw up.
Anyway, I went to a favourite blog, http://revjph.blogspot.com and noticed a quotation from popular US Columnist Molly Ivins. It did cheer me up a bit:
So keep fightin’ for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don’t you forget to have fun doin’ it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous, ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce. And when you get through kickin’ ass and celebratin’ the sheer joy of a good fight, be sure to tell those who come after how much fun it was.
(Molly Ivins 1944-2007)
The same columnist also wrote: “Have you ever seen such amazing arrogance wedded to such awesome incompetence?” to which we Zimbabweans can only answer - Yes, we certainly have!! And just when we think we’ve seen it all, the arrogance escalates (the incompetence already couldn’t get worse).
BTW, I agree with Chimurenga’s suggestions about conditions for a run-off. But what can we do to help promote these?
Sally D
May 2nd, 2008 21:10
As Thokozane Khupe (MDC Vice President) pointed out today, the results should only have been announced after all parties had verified and agreed the figures, as indeed Chiweshe has been saying. Suddenly they have not done this. Most of the news agencies haven’t picked up on this detail. There are apparently some 120 000 votes unaccounted for in Morgan’s favour, while both parties agree exactly on the number of votes for Mugabe.
So these are not true results until that process has been completed. If the MDC has miscalculated let it be recognised by a detailed tally of the figures.
Unfortunately the people have been let down because they went into an election thinking that whoever lost would not be in a position to punish them. It is unlikely they will make that mistake twice, to the conditions for any run-off would have to be very stringent indeed if the people’s trust is to be regained and a free vote exercised. Thankfully it looks increasingly likely that no run-off is required.
May 2nd, 2008 21:19
@ 4th Chim
Don’t get down-hearted - these committees have processes. To get onto the agenda at all was very significant.
Because SA was in the chair, Britain was confined to raising us under AOB - Any other business. You can speak then without the matter being on the agenda. It would be strange practice to pass a major resolution on an AOB item.
It’s Britain’s turn to be President from next week. Such is democracy. We don’t have the same fellows forever.
Yes, China, Russia, Libya, Vietnam, SA will block. Let’s face it. They don’t care so much about us - none of them do. They will negotiate what they want from each other.
China will be thinking Olympics on the one hand and land, minerals, oil, trade routes on the other. The Olympics are important to them. They are having talks with Tibet, and I can assure you in their minds (no offence to any Tibetans - you may even agree) that is like us going out to our yard to discuss rights with our fenceposts. The Chinese are very stubborn when it comes to “one China”. I make the point just to show the bargaining power of the Olympics.
EU have already said they want to send observers. The US has already expressed skepticism.
The US have also promised to put individual soldiers on the sanctions list. They are taking down reports of violence at the Embassy and noting who is doing what. And it is hard to get off those lists! Mandela is still on and has to get a special visa each time he visits the States! You fly anywhere in the world that is friendly to the US, if you are on their lists, you show up on their computers.
So onwards! Try to get some fresh air this weekend. Go for a walk on the beach! When you are back in Zimbabwe you will be thinking, why didn’t I walk on the beach more when I had the chance!!
Keep cool! This is going forward. MDC are sounding strong. ZPF got very clever. They announced lower figures than Chiweshe “You see it is not me that does magic arithmetic!” - but the numbers don’t balance and MDC wants to know why.
Keep cool! And have a walk on the beach. Listen to the waves. Look at the horizon. That is a trick I have learned. At home there is always night noise. In a lot of these places we are in now, we just hear traffic and it makes us tired.
Close your eyes and in the night and the early morning, listen for the furthest sound you can hear. It expands the mind. Have you noticed that people walk along the pavement, just looking down. Their world has become a small circle. Stop and look around. Look far. See how you feel (this is a Brazilian trick BTW).
Cheers. One day we will have a beer together.
May 2nd, 2008 21:24
Bob will remain president while the puppet chickens out
Robert Mugabe will contest the runnoff election according to Emmerson Mnangagwa as ZANU-PF accepts the results.
Morgan Zsvangirai on the other hand according to Tendai Biti does not accept the first round results and will boycott the second round.
Robert Mugabe has been duly elected President of Zimbabwe for a new sixth term that will end in 2013.
ZANU-PF will challenge in court the results of 52 parliamentary constituencies where the MDC was declared the winners but where electoral fraud is alleged according to Mnangagwa. Police chief Augustine Chihuru said that 100 people had been arrested and will be charged with comitting electoral fraud.
If the courts rule in the government’s favour the two factions of MDC including MDC-T and MDC will see their share in parliament cut from 109 seats to only 57 with the likelyhood that ZANU-PF will gain those seats and regaining the same two-thirds parliamentary majority as it had before and also stands to gain 3 more byelection seats.
If Robert Mugabe is duly relected President since the puppet Tsvangirai will be backing out, then ZANU-PF will also hold 63 seats out of 93 in the Senate including the 33 nominated seats.
May 2nd, 2008 21:47
What is needed is the help of the unions, international and national, their combined efforts could be a formidable force. Also, the new ANC leadership is far from happy with what is happening in Zimbabwe and it is no secret that they have been critical of the mediation process.
May 2nd, 2008 22:18
I sighed before I posted this. Kind of lost for ideas and bordering on despair right now. I am of the opinion that by announcing the MDC wont run without giving people an idea of what alternative there the MDC is creating an information vacuum. What are the alternatives? What are they asking of the Zimbabwean people? I wonder if anyone has influence in the MDC can they not communicate better to the ordinary Zimbabwean what option are they pursuing? I am also worried that there have been a lot of mixed messages because soon after the elections Morgan did say he would partcipate in a runoff. Would it not be better to actually take the moral high ground and say ‘if its another election you want we will take you on.’ and start to also psychologically prepare people for another fight and then push for conditions such as UN monitoring. Those in Zimbabwe how much of the MDC messages is actually getting to ordinary
people. I am really worried about a potential leadership vacuum with Morgan outside but also appreciate the real risk there is in him being in Zimbabwe at his time.
May 2nd, 2008 23:36
More suggested conditions for run-off - though these may be just the smaller details. They’re right off the top of my head
1. Corrected voter’s rolls - minus the long departed and fictitious voters. Electronic version of roll made available to contesting parties.
2. Removal of rally ban.
3. Fair distribution of polling stations.
4. Removal of police from within polling station (replace with UN officials?)
5. Confirmed deadline for anouncement of results.
6. An unhindered, independent voter education and reassurance exercise.
6. I guess rectification of anything else that was wrong with the first voting round.
I’m not sure how available these are - shipping containers have a robust seal, which can be uniquely marked, and they’re damn difficult to tamper with. Are parties allowed to afix their own seals to ballot boxes? If so is there anyone who can assist MDC with these?
Email and internet campaigns are fine for those with access to such technology. Is there any method that a number can be set up to accept petitions via sms. We in the diaspora could contact those back home and advise them of the number to sms. How do we contact Avaaz with a suggestion?
May 2nd, 2008 23:38
MDC SHOULD ACCEPT THE RESULTS AND GO FOR A RUN OFF PEOPLE WILL SPEAK THE SAME VOICE AND SHOW MUGABE THAT THEY NO LONGER WANT TO BE RULED BY A DICTATOR.AS FOR MUGABE HE MUST START PACKING AND GIVE TSVANGIRAI A SPACE IN THE STATE HOUSE
May 2nd, 2008 23:38
Morgan Tsvangerai, the puppet of the West and the whites in Southern Africa, will not contest a second round because he knows he will be roundly defeated as the ZEC won’t be allowed to make the mistakes it did by not kicking the troublemakers out who were responsible for the poll being rigged by the MDC and it’s American and British benefactors. No need for a second round as Mugabe has proven his ability to keep the country together through these difficult times which are no different than the difficult times faced by people in this region and in other African states. Lets accept the fact that had the MDC taken power, Mugabe and ZANU-PF would have returned to the bush and Zimbabwe would have been plunged into a civil war. This is something that the countries in the region are fully aware of not to mention the role that the rightwing whites in Zimbabwe and South Africa would play to destabilise the whole region. That is why the ANC will never support the MDC as it sees it as a proxy of white colonial interests in the same manner it saw Jonas Savimbi in Angola. Both SA President Thabo Mbeki and ANC President Jacob Zuma agree that outside intervention in Zimbabwe’s internal affairs would lead to conflict not only in that country but in the entire subcontinent. This despite the Western media’s relentless attempts to drive a wedge between them.
May 3rd, 2008 00:06
As Morgan has already said; a run-off with Mugabe is pointless, he has already shown that the result is meaningless to Mugabe and he will not respect it. Do not give him any more chances because he is slowly suffocating Zimbabwe. If he continues to hang onto his position then even some of his most foolish devotees will start to oppose supporting this dying ZANU_PF horse, once they see it can’t run anymore and then if this occurs; Jesus said “a house divided will fall” and Mugabe’s regime will imevitably implode in on itself.
May 3rd, 2008 02:18
Kevin
Are you serious? what you say does not make sense in this century, are you talking about the 70’s or the 21st century? I think you are talking about the 70’s when there were puppets, Morgan is not a puppet, he just has a different view to you and a few others.
May 3rd, 2008 09:06
Media enquiries media @ avaaz.org
Campaign suggestions campaigns @ avaaz.org
Partnerships partnerships @ avaaz.org
Donations donations @ avaaz.org
Volunteers volunteers @ avaaz.org
Translation issues or help translations @ avaaz.org
Français francais @ avaaz.org
Español espanol @ avaaz.org
Portugues portugues @ avaaz.org
Avaaz Foundation
260 Fifth Avenue, 9th Floor
New York, NY 10001
USA
I have emailed avaaz and asked them about their being the ability to text signatures…await their reply
May 3rd, 2008 09:09
avaaz media coverage phone number in the states(+1-888-922-8229).
May 3rd, 2008 09:44
@ Kevin Hughes
Rewrite all that describing the Journey you are taking, with or without us. The Journey you are taking with or without us. Where are you going? How are you going to get there? What are the main features of YOUR journey?
And then ask us sincerely to join along the way.
Why do you believe we are ideal companions for your journey? YOUR journey. Why do you believe that I will be your ideal companion on this journey you are taking?
Cheers, mate, and have a good weekend.
May 3rd, 2008 09:54
@ Beth
Take a break while you can. It will hot up again next week.
I listened to some foreign talk shows last night. Despite the big Labour upset in UK, people noticed. Zimbabwe is an interest of the Shadow Foreign Secretary whose party made big gains.
One talk show raised the applause of the audience by comparing the old man to other despots in history (not so funny) and then saying with a straight face - they would have made sure they got 99.5% of the vote. Robert Mugabe seems to have lost an election that he has rigged.
Ow! It is a sad day when a great man comes to to this.
I would feel your pain and fatigue. Take some time for a good walk. Try to listen for the heart of Zimbabwe and lets get ready for another busy month by resting a little and celebrating life - that is why we are working so hard - it is for life and because we believe in Zimbabwe. Like all families we will have our bad times. We can do more when we are rested.
My favourite poet says,
“sometimes the truth depends upon a walk around the lake”
or going fishing! Something to refresh the soul!
May 3rd, 2008 10:03
@ Sally D
Nice. Yes we must enjoy the journey too.
A good weekend!
May 3rd, 2008 10:06
To all at Sok,
I hope you find some time to enjoy your crisp May weekend and to reflect on what has been achieved.
It really is a marvel that the old man has conceded that he was outvoted - lawfully outvoted.
This is time for celebration and to refresh ourselves for the road ahead.
Thank you. Can we change our slogan now?
No longer enough is enough, but??
We are ready for the road ahead???
May 3rd, 2008 10:33
@ Kevi Hughes
You mentined that:
“No need for a second round as Mugabe has proven his ability to keep the country together through these difficult times”
…Are you cognisant of the fact that Mugabe was beaten during the first round of the election. He had the state machinery and used everybody’s taxes and appointed his loyal men to conduct the elections only to lose the elections. ZANU PF alleges the elections were rigged BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE APPOINTED
EXCLUSIVELY BY THEM? Asuumming that its true, then it implies that his “supporters” no longer want him.. You also say Mugabe has “kept the country together”.. man where are you saying this from? Mars? UMP?.. Do you know that 3million Zimbabweans have fled the country in the last 10 years? Is that what you call”keeping the country together”..
I am however glad that you agree that these are difficult times indeed.
May 3rd, 2008 11:00
It seems someone has to come and remove Bob, the question is who ?It is a reality that something from the outside needs to happen and by that I mean SA and China needs to be excluded for very obvious reasons.How much more and how much longer before the bubble bursts ? Do we as a peaceful people have to be pushed to the bitter end first ? I don’t think so. May this come to an end soon now.
May 3rd, 2008 11:06
The American Civil War… the Union had to go through 7 Army commanders before they found in U.S. Grant someone who could beat Robert E. Lee.
World War II…the Allies went through many years and combinations of commanders before… finally coming across the people who would eventually dismantle the Axis.
Unlike Hope says I dont think people claim the work done on this site is unimportant…but having gone round in a big predictable circle YET AGAIN, from rigged election to foressen outcome…
The question becomes…why believe its all that will be needed… when will people finally admit that a single track method isnt going to dent a Maoist dictatorship supported by SA / China.
History vouches for a combination approach of external pressure and specialist interventions by boots on the ground.
Trying to use the ‘colour revolution’ (economic strife=civil unrest) approach only works on populations that are not scared and apathetic who have organised properly inside the target nation. To pretend that its all non violent is a lie.
People claiming the mantle of the MLK approach ignore the fact that he wasnt seeking to overthrow the USA government…
However this whole ZDERA project is about regime change …from the inception of the MDC til now.
The very fact that the money supporting many Zimbabwe pro change civic groups comes from… can be ignored but not dismissed.eg VOA-STUDIO7 and others.
Thus again to the the issue….after yet another… one wing take off… and more unnecessary deaths when are people going to admit the real intention is regime change and do the ugly job properly…. or are they going to continue to mix their peaceful facade with the necessary methodology?
Nelson Mandela is lauded by many as the epitome of civilized man, yet even he saw it was a mixed approach.
May 3rd, 2008 11:44
While are all the news sites giving us reaction to results instead of the actual results themselve. Please give us the figures for all the foor candidates, not just percantages. We want to analyse them and c if they add up. Zimbabwean news site should report these things in deatail, not just give us summarised reports that lack detail like the International press.
May 3rd, 2008 13:07
@ Kevin
you really make me laugh. I can picture you sitting there at your keyboard winding us all up, trying to raise our hackles…but I just laugh out loud…wonderful stuff from our resident jester!
May 3rd, 2008 13:15
The trouble with Kevin Hughes, is that he just manages to piss most of us off. I’ve been wrong before, but I would venture he is not much of a Zimbabwean - maybe only an armchair one who sits safely somewhere in an ivory tower in the civilised world and mouths off about a topic he has little grip on.
Sokwanele ‘prints’ his comments in a noble effort to be non-partisan, so the rest of us who can’t help being VERY PARTISAN (& I’m not ashamed of being vehemantly anti-Bob) must simply skip over his diatribe.
It is clearly a minority view point and as far as I can tell very unhelpful. So don’t let it spoil your day…
May 3rd, 2008 16:15
@ Kevin: Where does this fantasy about Western puppets and stooges come from? To begin with, as our President has pointed out on several occasions, the values of democracy and freedom of speech are not a Western thing but a universal thing. Just because people in the “West” enjoy these basic rights and want others to share them, does not mean that those who champion such rights are working on behalf of some “Western Agenda”. It is only in a dictatorship (or a would-be dictatorship) that what is said by media and civil society is seen as a reflection of the State’s agenda.
Meanwhile politicians in the West often champion democractic ideals that they don’t live up to. Indeed the more the Western nations fall short of those ideals in one part of the world, the more they will look for opportunities to talk about them elsewhere. The only “Agenda” in that is the agenda of wanting to remain electable at home - in a democracy that’s all that drives any political leader.
I have been involved with the MDC right since 2000, in London, and I can assure you that if the MDC had any “backers”, Western or otherwise, I would know about them by now. They do not exist. MDC is just a political party made up of Zimbabweans for Zimbabwe.
Maybe it’s part of the damage that Smith and his ilk did to our country and people, when someone like Mugabe can’t take a black person seriously without thinking that there must be white people behind him pulling the strings. I thought we had moved on from that. No-one needs foreign influence in order to think differently or to believe in democracy and the right to choose one’s own government. A little bit of well-placed pride in Zimbabweans and their ability to think for themselves, would go a long way here. No one needs Americans or Chinese, British or Russians or South Africans to do their thinking for them.
May 3rd, 2008 20:13
I hope behind all this public posturing by the parties involved in this latest convulsion, some sensible discussion is being held behind closed doors and you can bet its around green baize tables that we might see a way forward. I have said in one thread and I will repeat it again in this one.
The MDC has everything to lose by entering into a re-match which they very well know ZANU does not intend to loose. Can’t you see these guys mean business when they hand the world phony results? They are deadly serious and no amount of international excoriating will change, a thing they are irredeemable and don’t care - and of course certifiable- the whole goddamn lot!!! No the fight with ZANU has to be in another space and that’s what well meaning people should be doing,finding that space and defining the rules of engagement.
May 4th, 2008 00:49
@ Mambo
The quest is to find people on this site who see the need for rules of engagement in the first place.
One thing to note is that some here dont like have an objective (see the facts) relationship with the truth.
They shape the facts and evidence…often emotinally in order to justify positions that offer no solution but just go round in a circle, back to the square one of…..
A ‘Waiting for Godot’… type POLITICAL farce.
(opposition1)”Bob must go!!!!”…
(opposition2) “ok how do we get rid of him?”
(opposition1) “civic angst , and international pressure”.
(commonsense )..er…that doesnt work by itself, you need more inputs.
(opposition1) “Silence !!!..I have a cunning plan… this time we will try civic angst and international pressure.”
As you said in a prior post …all this was predictable… but even while the trap was seen months ago …people chose to fall into it and make the same excuses about how failure is actually success and (as in 2005) say that the international community (a body split by self interest) MUST do something…all this while people are dying.
Rather than see that this is a deadly serious issue…(a power struggle) that needs due care and respect.
May 4th, 2008 05:34
It’s obviously not right for those observers from afar, like me, - to presume to advise any of you about how to respond to the possibility of a re-run. You face the challenges - we don’t.
But three things go through my mind:
1. Mugabe lost the election - badly - even by the obscure ZEC count. This should give heart to his democratic opponents - you have the numbers!
2. A party or candidate always has the right to participate - even under protest - but still withold their judgment about the fairness of the process.
3. If there is a run-off, it would help to get as much INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE as possible of the parallel tabulation (photos of polling place result notices etc.) published on the web as soon as it becomes available. Every polling place result that can be shown to be genuine and can literally be seen by the world is one less result that can be used to steal the election.
Of course this can’t be done everywhere, but it could make any fraud much more obvious. If Morgan Tsvagarai’s support clearly holds up at polling places where it is possible and safe enough to photograph and webcast the results, who would believe a major swing to Mugabe in places where it is neither?
May 4th, 2008 10:43
mdc ndizvo
MDC MUST ACCEPT THE RUN OFF BECAUSE WE WANT TO SHOW ZANU THAT WE NO LONGER WANT THEM.
May 4th, 2008 17:20
Our prayers and thoughts are with you guys at this terrible time in your history.
May the end of Mugabe now be in sight and a new dawn appear for all Zimbabweans.
May 4th, 2008 20:04
2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION -
ZANU-PF PLAN ‘A’
To induce the electoral officials to come up with a fraudulent result.
ZANU-PF PLAN ‘B’ (1)
To come up with a real alternative plan.
ZANU-PF PLAN ‘B’ (2)
Engineer a run-off as a fall-back strategy, backed by a ruthless campaign of intimidation against MDC activists.
THE MDC’s DILEMMA -
If it competes in a second round it faces further intimidation. But unless regional governments back its view that a second round is ‘unjust’, to decline to compete would hand victory to Mugabe on a plate.
CONCLUSION -
The whole world is watching, and contesting a second round after conceding a first round defeat is not what Zanu-PF intended. At the end of a five week debacle all they have achieved is to buy a little time. But, for what ?What have they really achieved?
May 4th, 2008 20:52
@ True Grit
Of course it makes perfect sense for ZANU to lose then win…it gives the veneer of legitimacy and lets then set the pace…ask the only question you need to ask.WHO STILL HAS POWER regardless of all the noise and bluster…
The sad truth is that MDC has stick only a carrot thus NO bargaining tool, ZANU isnt as internationally isolated or unpopular as people want to think…
Knowing for months it was all a big trap (an election set up by your enemy???) what was the MDC internal strategy ???…The very idea that they promote their non-violence as such a virtue is a wonderful thing for ZANU who know there are no consequences or come backs…not even the illusion of a reaction ….Now imagine a genocidal school bully that knows theres no authority?
People have placed so much on what OTHERS must do or say… where are their own plans???
As I said I take you for a realist ….Go round the world and youll see at least 40 countries in the ‘trouble spot’ que ahead of Zimbabwe where the whole world is watching (which it actually isnt).
May 4th, 2008 21:21
http://www.nationmedia.com/eastafrican/current/News/newsfc050520080.htm
May 4th, 2008 21:22
Where did my last comment go?? That link to a story out of Dar describes EA lawyers looking at ways to take China to the ICC in The Hague.
May 4th, 2008 21:46
@True Grit,
Nice layout. This is where I think we are.
1. Unprecedented change in Zimbabwe. Incumbent party and president is defeated peacefully in a democratic poll.
2. Results at the parliamentary level have been rechecked and the defeat was confirmed.
3. Results at the presidential level suggest the challenge missed out an outright victory by 0.1%. These results have not been verified and are different from those collated by the challengers.
4. A 5 week delay in an exercise expected to take 24 hours has lowered confidence in the technocrats.
5. Tensions and violence in this election and previous elections make people reluctant to take part in unnecessary runoffs.
WHERE TO NEXT
6. As the election was already under scrutiny and subject to prior mediation by the regional economic grouping, SADC, and because there is another level of international government between SADC and the UNSC, the leader of the victorious party will appeal first to SADC to use their good offices to have the results properly verified.
7. If and only if, the challengers are satisfied that the numbers produced by the technocrats are correct and they missed out by 0.1%, then they will re-run with full international observers AND bodyguards who will be responsible for their safety.
WHERE ARE WE NOW
The leader of the victorious challenging party traveled to Lusaka to see the current head of SADC who is also President of Zambia.
The vice-president also indicated that the president will go on to Ghana to seek to the UN SG Ban Ki-moon.
[wasn't that last weekend?]
We congratulate the people of Zimbabwe for showing their commitment to democracy to the world. The situation is tense largely because all sides believe they will not get a fair hearing. We ask the world for their support at this time to show the Zimbabwean people they were not foolish to put their faith in democracy and the voting booth.
May 5th, 2008 03:18
guys - dont feed the trolls! (”Kevin”).
May 6th, 2008 10:22
MDC you have to show ZANU-PF that it’s time to retire peasefully.
May 5th, 2008 17:36
[...] the not-so-breaking news from Zimbabwe, where on Friday the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission finally released the presidential election results over a month after the election. The results: no winner, with a runoff anticipated between the two [...]