The presidential poll numbers
Here are the total counts per presidential candidate, according to The Herald. We were hoping to see the breakdown by constituency… but not yet it seems…
Our activist ‘number cruncher’ is totally fed-up, and has just left the room angrily saying, “I’m sick of looking at incomplete spreadsheets and only half the story”.
Fact is, the half of the story that we don’t know is probably where the rigging will take place, and that is why the frustration is so deep. The lack of transparency breeds suspicion, mistrust and lack of confidence in ZEC.
So, here you are, but let it be said that we feel as if we are STILL awaiting the full results of the presidential poll.
Whether ZEC will ever reveal them for us all to see the full story - the truth - remains to be seen.
| Morgan Tsvangirai | Robert Mugabe | Simba Makoni | Langton Towungana | Total Vote | Spoilt |
| 1195562 | 1079730 | 207470 | 14503 | 2497265 | 39975 |
| 47.9% | 43.2% | 8.3% | 0.6% | 100% |
May 3rd, 2008 12:49
Thanks for letting us know.
I am still celebrating. Going from planning the journey to beginning the journey . . .
The world knows Morgan Tsvangirai won.
I wasn’t going to repeat this because it is essentially negative, but you can have a laugh . .
we have despot who rigged an election and lost?
It is a terrible thing to be remembered for - but witty.
What is the reaction from the newspapers where you are living??
May 3rd, 2008 13:07
Please forgive my ignorance about election rules and such but is it not possible to Simba Makoni to join forces with the MDC and tip that 47.9% over the needed 50% mark? You guys seem to know more about politics. Maybe you can answer this for me. Morgan needs help.
May 3rd, 2008 13:24
Ok, so around 90K more votes are registered in the Presidential total vote when compared with the Senate total votes…interesting…probably all dumped on Simba’s votes to increase the total and hence reduce MT’s vote share enough to fall below 50%…
[oh - we mustn't forget Rushinga was unopposed in the Senate so maybe another potential 15K onto the Senate total votes - so ~75K extra votes in the presidential?...still each 1% in the presidential represents around 25K votes.]
@4th Chimurenga
not sure where the 120K comes from…usual lack of clarity and transparency from ZEC…
May 3rd, 2008 13:52
No doubt. Those are rigged figures. The ZEC should give us a complete spreadsheet showing ALL polling stations. Why didn’t they give MDC enough time to verify the figures when in fact they gave themselves 5 weeks to do what they wanted us to believe that its verifying. There is no transparency in the electoral system. MDC should participate in the re run only after the ZEC results are similar to the ones posted on polling stations..
May 3rd, 2008 15:44
None of the major news wires have picked up or explained that the verification of results suddenly stopped when the MDC representatives questioned one set of figures, and that the results were not meant to be announced until, as Chiweshe said, all parties agree on the figure. That has not happened. These are preemptive results and have not been announced according to due process.
May 3rd, 2008 16:29
Good point Mike
A lot of questions on a lot of blogs and newspaper comment forms will help.
“Where is the discrepancy?”
The people on the ground should know they are watched and watched and watched! And then watched some more!!
May 3rd, 2008 17:00
They are indeed not the polling station displayed figures, and therefore cannot be the true verification figures, as agreed by all the opposition parties in a exercise, not only agreed to be held, but also convened by the Electoral Commission. Only once this total agreement is complete, at least to the winner’s satisfaction, can the exercise be complete, as this would be the only result that the people of a democratic nation state would accept.
Also, as Morgan has publicly stated, it makes little sense for an incumbent to demand a run-of when he has lost by such a large margin (we are not talking about 1% or less, but 7-8%). Nowhere else in any election in the wide world would this happen and be granted.
May 3rd, 2008 17:42
Someone started this line of reasoning earlier - well done!
Where are the results? They are not in any major papers.
Have they even announced them? Or are they trolling bait for an unwary fish?
The percentages and a pie chart are every where, but no numbers.
Has there even been an official announcement, or was this is the case of here’s a number, let’s see if they buy it?
BBC broke the news BUT they have no numbers on their website.
And now we get discussion of the numbers as fact?
The only dissent that I have found in one line in the Guardian (which alerted me) that said the results have not been officially announced.
MDC guys, what is the real position? Did ZEC make a formal declaration the way Registrars normally do after an election? Or is this hot air?
May 3rd, 2008 19:20
From what I hear/read on other sites Morgan fell short by 120k votes which appear to have been added to Makonis votes.
Unfortunately presidential elections are usually personal ie you vote for an individual rather then a party. Thus presidential votes cannot be added, even if Morgan and Simba would work together in all other respects.
May 3rd, 2008 19:33
BRACE YOURSELVES FOR ANOTHER DELAY
Please note that according to Dep Minister, Bright Matonga, the least number of days to carryout a runoff is 21 Days.. The most is 360Days.. This time around they will take the whole year doing what they know best, i.e intimidating the opposition and maybe planning some treason allegations or worst assassination attempts!! Anything is possible with ZANU. So brace yourselves for another year of “mfecane” (time of trouble)
May 3rd, 2008 19:43
Mugabe is as good as history. He is holding to straw. this is end game, run-off, or re-run. The galant voters have spoken loud and clear….its just a matter of time. A bottle of cooking oil is 1.5 billion!!!
If MDC goes for a re-run we have to support a strong commitment on the rules and conditions..
- freedom of the press
- domestic, regional and international observors
- review of role of security agents (police, army militias)
- No to violence and intimidation
- no immunity to crimes committed (which could have been negotiated if Bob had agreed to step aside).
May 3rd, 2008 19:43
I would just like to add a few legalities to my above post. In accordance with the Constitution, Mugabe dissolved the Cabinet prior to the March 29th elections. Any attempt thereafter to re-interpret the Constitution for self-serving purposes, including using co-ercion and violence totally erases any veneer of legality of a ‘caretaker’ regime. Furthermore, it is untrue for anyone to suggest that Robert Mugabe could never be expelled by legitimate force. A few years ago, both the African Union and SADC amended their charters to permit military intervention in cases where disorder is rampant or goverments have been overthrown. So, if Mugabe fiddles the election results, or were to resort to blatant military style rule, there would be ample legal justification for outside intervention. There are precedents in Africa for this: In 1997 Nigeria sent troops to Sierra Leone to kick out the army coup. The following year the SADC forces invaded Lesotho to restore the civilian government. In both cases democracy survived as a result. Yes, military intervention is a last resort, but it is always there if there is no other way.
May 3rd, 2008 21:18
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/world/africa/04zimbabwe.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Zimbabwe Party Seeks to Verify Vote
‘The opposition said Saturday that the government aborted the verification process on Friday, after having barely begun to review the results.’
and…
‘Mr. Tsvangirai flew to Lusaka on Saturday to present his party’s formal objections about the vote verification process to Zambia’s president, Levy Mwanawasa, who heads the Southern African Development Community, said George Sibotshiwe, a spokesman for Mr. Tsvangirai. ‘
and…
‘Mr. Mbanga, who represented the opposition at the vote verification meetings on Thursday and Friday in Harare, said Saturday that the opposition and election authorities had only begun to compare their discrepancies in the tallies for the Mashonaland West Province on Friday morning. For the results of two of the six polling stations examined, he said, the vote counts provided by election authorities were not documented on official forms with the required signatures by the opposition’s agents, raising suspicions of tampering.
“What would be the logic of abruptly stopping the exercise if there is nothing to hide?” Mr. Mbanga asked.’
May 3rd, 2008 21:29
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/05/03/zimbabwe.runoff/
‘Opposition candidate Morgan Tsvangirai is consulting with political leaders in the region in hopes they can persuade Mugabe to step down, a Tsvangirai spokesman said.
Tsvangirai will make an announcement Sunday about his runoff plans, the spokesman said.
MDC Vice President Thokozani Khupe, who held a news conference Saturday, said pressure also was being placed on the ruling party, ZANU-PF.
Tsvangirai was traveling to Ghana to meet with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Khupe said.’
(I don’t know how he keeps it up, I have seen few politicians work as hard as Morgan Tsvangerai (and his team) did in these past weeks.)
May 3rd, 2008 21:34
@TrueGrit - interesting addition about African precedents and military intervention. The question then would be: who? Clearly, South Africa is out of the question although I’m sure there are millions of South Africans who would gladly drop in and give Morgan a hand.
May 3rd, 2008 21:39
Here is the true position ladies and gents - 2000 ZANU PF had the Referendum The truth is that was meant to guage the population as to where opposition had support. You all know what followed. Come 2008, Simba is thrown into the mix again to confuse the voters. As it is the rigging that took place is that mavotes eMDC were shifted to Simba so that it does not look obvious that kuti panerigging. If you look at MDC’s figures or % they confirm ZANU PF’s and yet Simba had a lower % which after the anouncement is now higher - you See. Simba inyoka.
So the Simba mix was to buy time which they did (ZANU) and they have seen the viting pattern - What follows is now retribution as in 2000. We are on the ground watching and will let the world know. Zimbabwe my appeal is lets go for the re-run as we have seen kutiZIZI HARINANYANGA. Tichakunda chete. This is the LAST PUSH ladies and gents.
May 3rd, 2008 21:42
WHERE IS MBEKI?
Has Mbeki said anything about the outcome. Surely there are a lot of contrapositions in the legitimacy of those results. Those results were declared without verification from MDC. I think the move by the MDC not to just rush into a run off without unearthing the rigging by ZANU PF lest they use the same trick. The verification of the declared results is of paramount importance before we get into any run-off… (i just cant wait to hear Mbeki comments about the flawed results)
May 3rd, 2008 22:43
Rigged rigged rigged. Shame on you Bob. You lost. You lost and you are lying about it. On the other hand, may anybody congratulate you for admitting the two largest defeats of your career? Would you be gracious enough to receive such a compliment?
The good news is, everybody knows it. You stole and rigged your way to power before, so what does rigging a loss that remains a loss mean? That you lost really really big. You have lost twice.
You have now admitted that you lost Parliamentary and you lost presidential elections, two giant losses.
The only thing holding you in place is terror. Is that all you have left? Most rulers have legitimate sources of power: they have the authority of office and privileges, financial resources, people to do work and run government, pools of skilled officials with specialized talents, and you have an autocratic tradition in Zimbabwe that people respect rulers and elders.
You have blown all that like a teenager with his mom’s pocketbook. It’s gone. Now you are down to the last: sanctioning people with violence and terror.
That too runs out. It would be better now to admit defeat and retire in dignity, like you promised Mrs. Grace Mugabe you would do in May.
Good luck, Bob, with retirement, so Zimbabwe can move on. Violence is running out, the world can see it, and has the names of the officials you are sending to do it. You cannot bludgeon people into loving you. You cannot force 8 million people to listen to you.
You are the school teacher who has lost control of the classroom. You decide to beat each and every student one by one to get your respect back. In fact, you continue to have lost their respect. The other teachers will see it. You can never regain your reputation, control, and respect. Wishing you well in retirement.
May 3rd, 2008 22:45
below shows the ZEC and the MDC announced results. You see, it doesn’t take much to change it all around…~80K votes, some taken off MT..some added to Simba and it changes everything. So we need to see those V11 polling station forms! I do however question the MDC’s timing of releasing their pvt stuff…there is no doubt it is probably incomplete, but let’s see some examples…they had photos of the V11s?…surely they can get a constituency set together and show the rigging? So wow wow wow Mr. ZEC man and all the media…rewind…the results have NOT been released…we demand that they are released in full!
MT RM SM LT Total
ZEC votes 1195562 1079730 207470 14503 2497265
% 47.9% 43.2% 8.3% 0.6% 100.0%
MDC votes 1248395 1044292 121143 0 2413830
% 51.7% 43.3% 5.0% 0.0% 100%
Difference -52833 35438 86327 - 83435
May 3rd, 2008 22:47
Looks like Mbeki has been CALLED !! It’s about time guys.
Mbeki to brief religious leaders on Zimbabwe
Pretoria, South Africa
02 May 2008 12:28
President Thabo Mbeki was to brief a group of African religious leaders on the situation in Zimbabwe on Friday, his spokesperson said.
The briefing would focus on his mediation efforts, but it “may touch on current issues”, said Mukoni Ratshitanga.
He did not give more details about the briefing.
Mbeki would host the 15 religious leaders at the Presidential Guest House at 1.30pm.
Various religious leaders have, since the election, expressed concern over the situation in Zimbabwe, and over delays in talks and the release of election results.
“The South African Church leaders will also be calling — through the church organisations in Africa and Southern Africa — for tougher negotiating measures from the AU [African Union] and the UN [United Nations] in order to produce a speedy settlement to the apparent political stalemate in Zimbabwe,” the South African Council of Churches said in a statement last week.
Church leaders in Zimbabwe warned that rising violence could reach genocidal levels in that country.
May 3rd, 2008 23:03
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but it doesn’t matter. The only thing is that these figures aused them to hold a run off rather than just cheat completely.
The Herald is now blaming the MDC for cheating, claiming the ZEC has announced it has found evidence.
No matter the run off result, ZANU will lie, blame the MDC kill people and wait for SADC to whitewash them.
With blatant forgeries and lies that they aren’t even bothering to make look believable, whilst trying to spread the “Land Distribution” and ”fighting White neo-colonialists” race hate to South Africa, with the connivance of Mbeki and Zuma.
The signs are not looking good.
May 3rd, 2008 23:31
message to all who want a better zimbabwe and to the person who formed Sokwanele…Would it be worthwhile to get signatures to the Head of SADC to send some form of monitors to Zimbabwe, re: verify election results, go into the rural areas and see the proof of torture etc. Zanu PF are really doing what they like it is sickening, there is no law there is just mayhem, i hope some of you more educated people can write this in a more meaningful manner but i hope we can do something. A letter to the Head of SADC with signatures from all people who want a moralistic and democratic Zimbabwe.
May 3rd, 2008 23:47
@ Alisdair
well yes and no. Yes ZEC will announce whatever ZPF want. They did it in 2000, 2002, 2005 and now in 2008. They just made up the figures…it has always been in the figures. The point is that this time the results were in plain view of everyone…they were there out in the open, fluttering in the wind, for anyone who wanted to look at them. There should be no argument. The problem is the MDC have failed to capitalise on it. They have held on to what they have for too long…I can see Chamisa turning up today holding his V11s in the air saying “look..look”, and all around him are people packing up…so now they are playing catch-up. There is no way ZPF will allow counts to be posted on the polling stations doors in the re-run…(or lock in the polling agents as they did in 2005) they will claim a ZPF victory and no one will have any recourse…it looks like the MDC have missed the boat….indeed the signs are not looking good….
May 4th, 2008 08:26
In June the students who are studying outside of Zimbabwe will return for the summer holidays…if there is a co-incidence with the run off which way will they vote? The most important thing I think is to try and get a mandate on the legitamacy of the voters role..any Zimbabwean who is over 18 and can prove the conection ie born there should be posting their letters and emails to get on the voters role….How about setting up some sort of external based system of voting?…There are an estimation of 3.5 million people living outside Zimbabwe and that figures is growing daily…. 120 000 votes seems nothing in comparison to that figure…..The united people of Zimbabwe externally based vote for…….. we can try using facebook as our platform unless you guys have any suggestions……..by phone text and snail mail should be used too…….perhaps avaaz could help us run this is another suggestion….We Won but we can’t get the losers off the pitch so we will have mobilise the fans………..and hope ther referee will blow his whistle on this……what ever we do it must be done in the simplist of ways because the burn out is happeneing…..
May 4th, 2008 09:17
I sent this to the adminstrator of the cause on facebook Remove Robert Mugabe form power ……Ok guys according to the ZEC results MDC fell short of 2500 votes only(not that we believe the results)… there over 45 thousand member here…Alot of you are students who will return to Zimbabwe for the when the supposed run off will take place now is the time to act……. I am not a computer boffin nor a techno wizzard but Im sure some of you are so here’s a proposal … we set up an international petition called the UNITED PEOPLE OF ZIMBABWE HAVE SPOKEN AND ADD THIER VOTES TO MDC (or something like that) ..however because alot of people do not have access to the net and because ther supposed 3.5 million of us out of Zimbabwe (and rising) we need to make it available through mobile phones and snail mail too…we then must send this to SADC the AU the UN etc….. But be co-ordinated this requires one platform so jump on everything related to Zimbabwe on my space facebook etc…. if the six degree is working that means we should be able to reach everyone…..Civic power works the SATU did it for us in Durban…..we must reciprocate their proud moment with our own efforts……
May 4th, 2008 09:27
Are there nobody that can go and do an audit of the results so it can become transparent for all ? What also baffles me that approx half of the country voted for ZANPF, surely no one in his right mind could still believe in this dictator. It can only mean intimidation must have been the order of the day and the rest must have been “his cronies”, please correct me how those results came about if anyone knows.
Do you call that free and fair ?
May 4th, 2008 09:37
Oh and one final thought the MDC should have a respresentative right now in every single university around the world expressing the necessity that these young minds use there voices for change they are Zimbabwes future and they are the ones who will be part of her future…….and lets not foget to keep praying….
May 4th, 2008 10:43
http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php
Zanu pays thugs to kill MDC officials
Friday, 02 May 2008 16:14
Zanu pays thugs to kill MDC officials
• Defector spills the beans
• Z$10 billion for a life
BY CHIEF REPORTER
HARARE
Zanu (PF) is paying its thugs Z$10 billion for each member of the MDC who is killed and Z$5 billion for burning down houses of activists. In an exclusive interview with The Zimbabwean on Sunday, a defector from the campaign of terror codenamed Operation Mavhotera Papi, said it had been mounted with the specific approval of the party’s president, Robert Mugabe, against opponents of his regime.
The operation was launched shortly after Mugabe lost the March 29 elections, and is widely seen as the party’s strategy to ensure that a terrified populace votes for Mugabe in the presidential election run-off that has been engineered by the military junta through the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC).
Henchmen in the pay of the party have been promised payment on a sliding scale, from Z$10 billion for killing an opposition member to Z$5 billion for burning a house.
The defector said young party members were selected by their local branches and sent for seven days of training and indoctrination at the King George VI (KG6) army barracks in Harare.
They are taught assassination skills and paramilitary activities. They are then sent out at night in small squads to kill members of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) or burn their houses.
Twenty-one people have died in political violence after the March 29 poll, all of them known to have supported the MDC, according to MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa.
Operation Mavhotera Papi recruits are sent into action far from their homes so that they will not be recognised or constrained by social or tribal rules. Rewards are offered in the chilling language of a killer accountant.
The Z$10 billion is earned only if the opposition member is murdered “on directive” from the party leadership.
A civil servant qualifies for an initial fee of Z$2 billion if he agrees to spy on fellow employees in the hunt for MDC sympathisers, and gets another Z$2 billion for each person denounced.
Our source called the operation ‘the killing project’. He said he was recruited as a card-carrying Zanu (PF) member and activist. He also spied on people in his village. But after his experiences at KG6, he began to have doubts, and agreed to reveal the organised campaign of atrocities.
He said the ongoing intimidation and murder of MDC supporters had been ordered at a high level and was being directly orchestrated by the Joint Operations Command.
Some of the activities at KG6 were banal. Recruits would chant Zanu (PF) slogans and take breaks for tea and meals of “sadza” (maize porridge) and meat.
Other activities were not. They were shown how to stab someone in the chest and advised to throw their knife in a river or sewerage drain so that it could not be traced. The recruits were also given instructions on burning the homes of opponents.
The army commanders were said to be the speakers at their “graduation” ceremony. Their words left them in no doubt as to their duty.
According to him, they were told in Shona: “When we are speaking of the struggle, we are talking about killing people so the country can be free.” The senior commanders reportedly referred to Zimbabwe’s fight for independence, won in 1980, and added: “Now we are at war again. If one of you is asked why you are killing, you say it is not us, it is the president.”
After instruction during the day, our source said he and other Zanu (PF) recruits carried out several operations at night.
“When we were told to burn a house, six of us got into a pickup truck,” he said. “The driver alone knew the address. One member had a petrol container; the most senior member carried a gun. The rest had knives or clubs. The man with the gun knocked on the door. The rest of us had to surround the house. When the house owners came out, we went in, escorting the petrol-carrier.”
Our source said they doused every room, poured the petrol out to the front gate, and then lit it. He believes he took part in the killing of three MDC members during his stay in Harare, and their bodies were dumped in the Mukuvisi river or in sewers.
They never said the word kill: they used the code “Tsuro Four”, which meant assassinate, he said.
It was one of these operations that led to his return to Mudzi. He and his group were about to dump a body when the victim suddenly jumped up. He slashed at our source’s face and escaped. To compensate for his injury, the Zanu (PF) leadership promised to give him and five friends who had also taken part a diesel-run mill for maize.
SOKWANELE!!
S
May 4th, 2008 13:58
[...] Zimbabwe presidential poll numbers: “Here are the total counts per presidential candidate, according to The Herald. We were hoping to see the breakdown by constituency… but not yet it seems…” Posted by Ndesanjo Macha Share This [...]
May 4th, 2008 14:07
As is in the news, Liberia’s ex-President Charles Taylor had about $5bn in two US bank accounts during his presidency, his chief prosecutor has told the BBC.
I suggest we find the loot Mugabe and his thugs have stolen from the people and accumulated in foreign assets, impound it and use that to rebuild the land. $5 billion goes a long way!
May 4th, 2008 14:31
@ BeeSA 3/5, 21.34
To answer: Who would become involved…?
I think that could be the SADC, and not specifically SA action unilaterally. This was hinted at by Morgan in his interview with France 24 (1/5), when he said they could become involved in a broader capacity during the transition stage. His words were: “We believe the SADC have a responsibility for launching another initiative (i.e. after the mediation process has been exhausted) which should be broad based, and focus on the transfer of power.”
May 4th, 2008 14:44
The analysis in the Zimbabwemail is enlightening and I suppose alarming, but frankly I don’t see any other way for Zimbabwe to defend it’s constitution. See link below.
http://www.thezimbabwemail.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=190&Itemid=26
May 4th, 2008 15:15
Surely Mugabe is gonna keel-over and die soon. He can’t live forever! He is 84, his body will give in one day! Okay, so even if he has decided that he is going to live forever and remain in control of his “beloved” country…sorry, not gonna happen!
What would ZANU-PF do then? Sure they must have a deputy in place to take over (if they don’t fight amongst and kill each other for the position), but would that person really have the power?
Yes, ZANU-PF has it’s frightning leaders and MP’s that are not afraid to kill, and who would not feel in the least bit guilty if they were the cause of more deaths in Zimbabwe - all in the name of “purging the country of the filth” that want to hand Zimbabwe over to the “Puppet Masters” (Lol - thanx Kevin) via the ignorant Tsvangira & his silly little “puppet-sheep” who don’t mind that the Big, bad “Puppet Master’s” are not really their friends - and will soon be cutting their strings.
There is NO ONE that will EVER be able to control Zimbabwe the way Robert Mugabe has. He is the driving force behind the terror that places fear in the hearts of the people. His legacy cannot be continued by another person- it just wouldn’t stick. Zimbabweans would not be as intimidated or fearful, and the ZANU-PF would soon realise that and flee.
Figuratively speaking, The people see Mugabe as the devil and ZANU_PF as his minions. No more devil…surely his minions cant be as strong anymore…the people stand up together…and the minions run away with their tails between their legs.
May 4th, 2008 16:01
THATS ZANU NOW REPORTING!!!!
White farmer arrested in Nyamandlovu
Harare Bureau
HARARE - A COMMERCIAL farmer in Nyamandlovu in Matabeleland North has been arrested together with some of his farm workers for assaulting war veterans who had visited his farm to discuss the land issue.
http://www.sundaynews.co.zw/inside.aspx?sectid=419&cat=1
May 4th, 2008 17:53
Sokwanele, perhaps we need a list that can be updated with names, date and place - who, what, when & where in short - with regard to incidents of violence. Especially if there are names not only of victims, but those behind or linked with violent incidents.
Zimbabwe police violently disperse religious group in Harare:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/203113,zimbabwean-police-violently-disperse-religious-group-in-harare.html
‘About 20 armed riot policemen had descended on the group aligned to the new head of the Harare diocese, Bishop Sebastian Bakare, and ordered them to disperse before arresting Reverend Farai Mutamiri. They bundled him into a police truck and drove him away.
Those who tried to resist the order were beaten up with batons. Police spokesperson Wayne Bvudzijena could not be reached for comment regarding the reason for the arrest of Mutamiri and his whereabouts.’ etc
May 4th, 2008 18:22
ANC wants Zimbabwean foes to seek compromise
http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/News/Article.aspx?id=759800
ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe says the ANC wants Zimbabwe’s political parties to consider an inclusive government instead of pressing for the outright winner that would result from a presidential runoff.
Mantashe said this option could be suitable for Zimbabwe because the country was increasingly “becoming militarised and there was tension and fear that could easily lead to conflict”.
Mantashe told the Sunday Times yesterday that the ANC had been unable to secure a meeting with the ruling Zanu-PF. The ANC has made several requests for a meeting with the party but sources say Mugabe has been angered by the ANC’s public attacks on his government.
But Mantashe said: “We have been conscious of who deals with whom in setting up those meetings. That process is taking longer. But I think it will happen quite soon.
“We need to look whether a re-run will be in the best interests of Zimbabwe, or whether they can negotiate a more accommodative arrangement. That is one of the options that can be put to them.
“What you should appreciate is that the situation in Zimbabwe is quite volatile. And it’s militarised. And where fear is instilled and (there is) a potential of conflict, it is the parties that can manage themselves politically. We must not write off that option.”
Mantashe said the ANC had “engaged” the opposition MDC on the matter. “Our view is that they must minimise their public utterances. It makes engagement difficult. Once you go public you push everybody into (entrenched) positions.”’ etc
(In the meantime, there are more reports of violence against MDC supporters. Perhaps Mr. Mantashe could ask Zanu-PF to “minimise” the violence!)
May 4th, 2008 18:50
I don’t know where Jim got his table of results from, but it’s useful to comment on;
Did MDC factor in the postal votes (diplomatic and security service votes)? These counts were not included in the polling stations results, which MDC used for their projections. Does this account for the 80435 difference between the MDC and ZEC totals? Referring to the postal vote ‘wildcard’ and being certain who those votes were for, what can be said of the minor variance between the MDC and ZEC counts for Mugabe? Something doesn’t sit well in these results, and I can’t put my finger on it! This whole thing strikes of statistical manipulation. No one can get to see all the data. All we’re given is a final total, which can easily hide a host of discrepancies. Are we ever going to see the results by constituencies? I doubt it, because Mugabe has no idea which evidence MDC has from the displayed polling station results, and a comparison with ZEC manipulated votes is risky. There is absolutely no transparency in these results at all. It seems that international leaders are waiting in vain for this cloudiness to dissipate and are holding back. What’s wrong with the concept of ‘reasonable doubt’. It’s used frequently by jurors in criminal convictions.
May 4th, 2008 21:00
INCLUSIVE GOVENMENT???
I dont think that will work in the Zimbabwean scenario. MDC & ZANU have completely different ideologies which cannot be mixed up… ZANU PF is for ZANU PF whilst MDC is for Zimbabweans. ZANU PF is only interested in safeguarding its loot at the expense of the whole nation. Apart from that who can lead that inclusive govement? Nether of the two leaders of the parties is willing to be ruled by the other. ZANU PF should change its “military system” of ruling before joining hands with MDC. We dont care about the ZANU people but the system amongst them.. General Josiah Tongogara once said refering to the Smith regime “we are not fighting the whites, but a system amongst them’
May 4th, 2008 22:39
democracy at work. . .
I have just lifted this quote off one of the Obama blogs . .. ordinary people set a goal to make 1m calls from him in the runup to the next primary
Sarah: I will make 100 calls this weekend … At least!
Chris: You can count on me to make at least one hundred calls this weekend.
Tracey: I can commit to 25 calls tomorrow, maybe more! It’s our 7 year olds’ birthday party but I’ll do some in the morning.
Max: I’ll be calling all Saturday and Sunday too! Going for at least 250 calls!
Barbara: I plan to make at least 150 calls this weekend. The people I’ve called in Indiana seem to be interested in discussing the issues — some of the longest calls yet. Talking about everything from jobs to unions right to organize to taxes to gay rights. It’s fun and interesting and feels like it’s making a difference. I like seeing the counter click over, knowing that so many others are doing the same thing.
Donna: I’ll be making 25 calls to IN and 25 calls to NC this weekend.
Daniel: At least 10 calls for me
Really Hopeful: I am devoting Saturday and Sunday to calling. I am pledging now to call at least 50 numbers each day.
I like Mama’s idea of galvanizing students in foreign universities. I know some of them have the skills to make some good YouTube mashups. Music, pictures, videos - with a clear message. Support Zimbabwe. 45% of voters turned out. That is the same as the UK in their last elections. That is incredible.
A simple campaign of Watch democracy in Zimbabwe. Let’s get the buzz going.
And having said that, I will check in tomorrow to see what other people think are the priorities.
May 5th, 2008 08:09
http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=905455
MDC learns of sniper plot
2008-5-5 00:09
Johannesburg. - Snipers in Zimbabwe are ready to shoot and kill MDC party leaders.
These were the words of MDC spokesperson and former MP Roy Bennett on Sunday after the party was told by informants in the military of a plot to murder those high up in the MDC.
Another MDC spokesperson said on Friday that 20 MDC members had already been murdered for political reasons since the March 29 elections.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) said last Wednesday in Johannesburg that they had proof that the military was handing out weapons to youth militia members and “war veterans” in a terror campaign against the MDC.
HRW also said that MDC members were being kept in torture camps, assaulted and forced to declare their allegiance to the Zanu-PF.
“The MDC were informed that these snipers would also eliminate any opposition leader if given the opportunity,” Bennett said.
In an attempt to escape night-time attacks, the leaders did not sleep in the same place for more than two nights in a row.
Shortly after they left the place where they had slept, it was destroyed so as not to be used again.
“The party leaders’ family members are also tortured in their own homes so that they will provide information over where the leaders are to be found.
And if the don’t co-operate, their homes are burnt down.”
In the current climate of violence prevalent in especially the rural areas of Zimbabwe, there were 600 MDC members who were seriously injured, besides the 20 deaths.
Die Burger
May 5th, 2008 08:40
BBC today says the teachers will go on strike in Zimbabwe as 113 of their members have been attacked…..so what % of people will actualy be working in Zimbabwe now? and they aren’t gonna want to man the pole the station at the next run off….Loved the advert in the Zim paper with all the contact well done…. I got the impression Avaaz seem to think their work was done with the ship but am keeping contact with them and have suggested about the United People of Zimbabwe campaign and using text messages to sign….. I long for co-ordination now too many seperate groups all saying the same thing all in agreement but not working together…. I was interested to read on one of these blogs that Mugabe made Grace a promise to step down in May it continues my thoughts that He is not all there…..I am sure his ambition is to retire to a farm like Nyere…..I don’t think he is running the show at all…..the childrens story the Emporers New Clothes Keeps Coming Back to me…….
May 5th, 2008 09:02
I ask! How can the votes have such a vast difference when - you have a member of the ZEC counting, a party member over see that count then a re-check & all members including the chief ZEC sign off the count at each station. Then it was posted outside. MDC-50.3% ZANU-PF 42.3% & the rest other party members, which shows the people choice so Who fooling who? MDC must run in the re-run to prove they are the party to turn Zimbabwe around.
May 5th, 2008 10:11
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/05/zimbabwe
The guardian is reporting that the run-off may be delayed by a year. Zimbabwe can’t really take another year under Mugabe, so can I encourage everyone to take advantage of the action contact list, and get in touch with SADC, AU, UN and other government contacts to petition them to intervene and verify the votes themselves. I’m sure there is photographic evidence somewhere of the returns posted outside polling stations. We should try and track this information down and send it on to as many contacts as we can. If ZANU insists on a run-off, we need the international community to intervene and make this happen as soon as possible!
May 5th, 2008 11:15
I feel the MDC are caught between a rock and hard place and unfrtunately they have to make the tough decision of going to the run-off.
MDC need to make hard decisions but should be made easier that it is not their fault that they are the opposition and the government is committing violence.
Their aim is to be the next goverment and that is their job. they should not be distracted by what the government wants to do or their commitment to destabilastion.
The best the MDC can do for their people is to say we are in and this is the vision and leadership and we are going to govern. Boycotting shows weakness and no direction to the people who follow an organisation promising them peace, freedom and human rights. Imagine the let down of many if they are told what they have fought for til now is all for nothing.
MDC your resolve is being tested…stand up and be resilient. Tell Mugabe “you can bash our bodies but you wont dampen our spirits”.
Mugabe’s campaign is for MDC to surrender…does the MDC ant to do this. If they do they just need to boycott.
Too many lives have been lost up to now. Is this all for nothing?
MDC can educate people how to defend. If Morgan wants to be president he needs to act like one. Start having vision and start leading his people…get them to defend themselves.
Defending oneself is not committing violence.
Its time MDC throws it back at Mugabe and say if it means that some blood will be spilled to get you out….we will get you out.
Mugabe is in the corner..he has to be vicious to get himself out of it.
More people will die if MDC boycotts the election.
May 5th, 2008 11:20
@ Adrienne - I have seen this too. There is no way that it can take a year before there is a run-off. Can anyone imagine what will happen during that time? Just look at the reports of violence at present, and its escalating. I agree that intervention is needed.
May 5th, 2008 11:23
Unfortunately sadc or any other international union is not the answer for Zimbabwe.
Zimbabwe needs to find their voice without committing violence and they can but at what cost.
Power sharing is only the answer for politicians and not for the nation. A country will not go forawrd in a power sharing government especially in Zimbabwe at this time.
Zimbabweans need a lot of answers for what has happened over the past 28 years and a power sharing government is not going to give this.
Zimbabwe has heaps of potential to be a country that can be an economic and social success..it can even reach heights of a first world coutnry whilst maintaining its culture and identity.
A power sharing government will hold this back.
Zanu Pf has too much blood on its hands for a majority to trust it.
A solution; A party to win outright and they invite elements of the opposition to form a small part in cabinet.
May 5th, 2008 11:31
The MDC need really think about what to do when they win the run-off election.
They need a plan A and a plan b.
What happens if Mugabe says no?
What are they, MDC, going to do if this happens?
I heard Morgan in an interview a few weeks ago…he was clueless as what to do next if the results dont come out or if he wins but Zanu Pf does not budge.
May 5th, 2008 12:40
@ chinja,
Rigid planning doesn’t work in conflict situations - for two reasons - the other guys are motivated to win too; and they can do anything.
We have to do two things to win:
a) Always ensure that we have energy and morale to spare. The side that can bring energy and enthusiasm when the other side is tired is the side that wins.
b) Be prepared to replan, replan, replan. In the military they say that no plan survives meeting the enemy. So why plan? It is not the plan but the planning. When we plan, we learn about our options so that we can think faster in heat of battle.
I have been impressed by MRT so far. He is articulate and consistent in his message. He has been doing this a long time and he doesn’t waver. For me he qualifies as a leader on three counts:
He knows where he wants to go - to finish the job of liberation and have a democratic Zimbabwe.
He knows how are we going to get there - democratically - we are going to fight the way we mean to live. One adult one vote.
Does he believe in the people of Zimbabwe - yes he does. The other side does not believe that our opinions matter - we are told we cannot think for ourselves! Each small voice matters - that is the nature of liberation. Each ambuya kumusha, every sekuru with 15 grandchildren to look after, each grandchild particularly when they turn 18, each voice matters. That is what this struggle is about.
Everything thereafter is a detail. And actually it will become easier. With internet, it hard for anyone to ‘cover up’. We will be able to insist on greater transparency than we dreamed was possible in 1980.
Does Morgan have to do it all alone? No he doesn’t. He just has to ‘chair ‘ the process. The rest of us are capable of setting up IT systems that show us and the world exactly what is happening where. The 100 dollar laptop scheme and some mobile phones and life changes very fast!! The ten year olds will do it!
Will that feed people? Yes, it will. Because people feed themselves. They aren’t babes-in-arms. All they need is the freedom to get on with their lives.
Votes that are respected.
A stable currency.
Transparent government and courts.
After that, the people do it all. We trade, we study, we teach - we never get our dinner from charity - we get it from self-interest of the butcher and baker. Zimbabweans understand that - we are not children.
And do you know the best thing that we have achieved so far. Is that the voice of Zimbabweans do count! You try getting overbearing in a Zimbabwean workplace. People will go very quiet. Someone may even come to you and say something politely. People in Zimbabwe like to discuss and then act - in that order.
And does that work? How many times have I had that discussion?!!! Yes it does. Companies pay big consultants big fees of thousands of pounds a day to show them how to consult!! Ha ha. How to have a dare!
We must continue having our modern-day dare and then that is our FIRST export product. We replace tobacco with wisdom. Yeah?
We bring tourists to Zimbabwe not to see a lion - thought they can see that too - but to talk to a grandfather who raises 15 grand children. To experience bravery, courage and resilience. These attributes are short in other places. People’s souls are as dry as the vlei in Matabeleland in October and they want the rain of our courage to bring out the green grass in their hearts.
We will go to other countries and teach them about democracy. To show people how to sit down and talk and to come to conclusion they can all live with.
To stay true to real wisdom when life is bad. That is what it is all about.
Frankly, we have to show the old man that we have benefited from Independence. We are free. We are free to make up our own minds, to speak with our own voices, to consult each other, and to decide the way forward that we will try for 1 day, ten days, 3 months, I year, 5 years. Always listening though because we could be wrong, and maybe we should change directions. That balance is what we are good at.
May 5th, 2008 12:41
Gee that was long. When the comment box is small, it is hard to see the whole post and it gets longer and longer. Sorry.
May 5th, 2008 13:26
Please can we have outside intervention to step in and have the complete results on black and white ? The results must be known now and the old man needs to go, we want to come back and rebuild what he broke down for our children’s sake. There is no time to wait anymore, it is getting worse by the day and why all those killings? All just to cling to a very sick form of power, looking after a very brainwashed minority.
May 5th, 2008 14:00
@ exbulawayo
Someone on this site wrote….”Partly we are ‘passive aggressive’ - we believe if we cry loudly enough, daddy will give in to our demands - and we all know who daddy is. Eh? And we don’t really trust our ‘big brother’ to fill daddy ’s shoes? Ney?”
I wont say who but it kinda sums it up…these ZANU /JUNTA are Maoists, not democrats…they dont view this struggle like its Selma Alabama, and we shall overcome means anything…they see it like 1989 Tiananmen Square..On Thursday, The Zimbabwean reported that the JOC (a military body) was directing the ZANU operation, headed by the same men that headed Ghukurahundi…
This isnt a game…yet some do half the job and crow they see the finish line. [... content deleted]
May 5th, 2008 14:08
@Scotchcart
Well said. I especially like the bit about the IT systems. Communications “on the ground” is vital, in my opinion.
May 5th, 2008 14:30
I’ve put the parliamentary results on Google Earth as bar graphs for each constituency - I hope some people will find this useful - and can benchmark any constituency results for the presidential poll (and any run-off) against it. Visit http://cjw.id.au/WordPress to view it.
Please let me know about any mistakes and I’ll try to correct them - I think I had the Gokwe constituencies a bit mixed up but could not find a map of them. It’s just another way to inform people.
May 5th, 2008 15:14
IT systems?…all you need is petrol, people, a sharp pencil and a notepad to write down the scores on the doors…unfortunately there isn’t much petrol in the country.
May 5th, 2008 15:51
Nice work Charles.
Jim, I think you are agreeing - we don’t have to wait for anyone and small solutions go a long way.
Charles, I have a google app engine account which I have been reserving in the hope we can use it for a Zimbabwe mashup. Anything listed there will get a large amount of publicity.
How interested are you in IT? If you would like to collaborate, we could get your map up there and presumably make provision to feed in new data quickly as it comes in.
May 6th, 2008 14:47
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